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SBB consider reintroducing Night Trains

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Stephen Lee

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farci

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“I wondered if there are potential routes SBB can start and how they are going to reintroduce Night Trains or they will cooperate with OBB’s nightjet.....
Seems so as the article goes on to say ''...SBB would like to implement the project in cooperation with Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB), which has been expanding its network of overnight Nightjet services...'"

This is part of a wider realisation there is a market for climate-friendly travel as discussed in this thread
 

Stephen Lee

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Seems so as the article goes on to say ''...SBB would like to implement the project in cooperation with Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB), which has been expanding its network of overnight Nightjet services...'"

This is part of a wider realisation there is a market for climate-friendly travel as discussed in this thread

Was wondering if there are potential routes that SBB can plan for
 

Struner

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MarkyT

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The article in the International Railway Journal referred to above is nearly ten months old now. Earlier this month there was an article in the Neue Zuercher Zeitung about it (in German, GIYF :E ).
https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/mehr-nac...tionen-ld.1543799?mktcid=smsh&mktcval=Twitter
I understand that apart from local 'just over the border' services to the nearest large town or junction, subsidy for international services is generally not allowed under EU regs. Love your sig picture!
 

JonasB

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I understand that apart from local 'just over the border' services to the nearest large town or junction, subsidy for international services is generally not allowed under EU regs. Love your sig picture!

Are you sure about that? There was no mention about that in the Swedish report about possible future international night trains.
 

MarkyT

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Are you sure about that? There was no mention about that in the Swedish report about possible future international night trains.
I've seen the argument used in the past. That's not to say it couldn't be changed in the future, especially if the funding comes from a different pot. The Swiss article echos this, although of course they're not in the EU, but all potential night services would be running to or through EU countries of course, as Switzerland itself is far too small for its own internal night trains.
 

37201xoIM

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Yes, that's right and is a perennial issue for all those who would wish to expand cross-border services generally, not only overnights. I'm sure people will have their own views as to whether the EU's A-level Economics textbook-led approach is appropriate or wise......
 

JonasB

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I've seen the argument used in the past. That's not to say it couldn't be changed in the future, especially if the funding comes from a different pot. The Swiss article echos this, although of course they're not in the EU, but all potential night services would be running to or through EU countries of course, as Switzerland itself is far too small for its own internal night trains.

I've seen a lot of different arguments used, but unless you have a source for that rule I will take it as serious as curved bananas being banned.
 

Alfonso

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I understand that apart from local 'just over the border' services to the nearest large town or junction, subsidy for international services is generally not allowed under EU regs. Love your sig picture!
I don't think the EU has an issue with a subsidy, it has an issue with subsidising one organisation without any kind of competitive tendering process.
 

Stephen Lee

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Guys I wondered if SBB can restore the EN Gottardo, Luna, Roma in the form of nightjet.....
 

30907

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Guys I wondered if SBB can restore the EN Gottardo, Luna, Roma in the form of nightjet.....

Interesting idea which I've not come across before (to save everyone else having to look it up - I remembered Gottardo as a TEE! - these are variants of the Geneva/Zurich/Bern-Rome route) .
The route is long enough, even allowing for the new HSLs, to make it sensible, and using new NJ sets would make sense as that's what OeBB will be running onto Italy.
Geneva-Bern-Zurich-Gotthard Base Tunnel wouldn't be a daft idea (it wasn't an option before).
On the other hand, the OeBB model needs 2 sets coupled for as much of the route as possible to make it viable.
The last version of the old train, EN Luna, combined/split at Brig, so that's the obvious option.
Another possibility might be to combine Geneva/Bern and Basel/Zurich portions at (say) Arth-Goldau.
A third, probably too ambitious, would be the classic X-pattern Geneva/Zurich to Rome/Venice with a swap in Milan.
 

Taunton

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Yes, that's right and is a perennial issue for all those who would wish to expand cross-border services generally, not only overnights. I'm sure people will have their own views as to whether the EU's A-level Economics textbook-led approach is appropriate or wise......
Competition & Markets Authority within Britain has exactly the same, simplistic, "one solution fits all" approach.
 

MarcVD

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A third, probably too ambitious, would be the classic X-pattern Geneva/Zurich to Rome/Venice with a swap in Milan.

Would not the natural route from Geneva to Italy be via the Rhone Valley and the Simplon tunnel, instead of going north of the Alps to cross them again ?
 

30907

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Would not the natural route from Geneva to Italy be via the Rhone Valley and the Simplon tunnel, instead of going north of the Alps to cross them again ?
Yes. Geneva-Simplon-Milan, Zurich-GBT-Milan, swap portions, forward to Rome and Venice. It's how Nightjet mostly works (Nuremburg, Villach, Salzburg...).
Though Geneva is north of the Alps in my book.
 

MarcVD

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Someone higher in the thread considered the idea to merge Zurich and Geneva trains in Arth-Goldau...
 

Gordon

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Would not the natural route from Geneva to Italy be via the Rhone Valley and the Simplon tunnel, instead of going north of the Alps to cross them again ?

Yes it would - like in the old days, but an overnight service can go any route as long as the arrival time at destination is attractive. In any case Genève is north of the Alps, and already there is a regular service Genève - Luzern which 'goes north to come south' as the Swiss are happy to do that (because of the shape and geography of Switzerland, it is the same as the Brig - Romanshorn IC service - it's a roundabout route but the most logical for a fast train as the 'as the crow flies' route crosses too much Alpine territory.
 

Gordon

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, as Switzerland itself is far too small for its own internal night trains.

Well, not necessarily... the Swiss had a few night trains many years ago. In my 1957 copy of the Swiss Kursbuch there is a train (seats coaches only) departing Genève at 00.50 and arriving Zurich HB at about 6.30am.

It was actually Swiss railways train number 1, and appears in my 1930 Kursbuch. After 1957 the next Swiss kursbuch I have is 1973 and it was gone by then.

Of course the west - east trunk line didn't have all the speed enhancing cut offs and HSL sections that it has in 2020.

.
 
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