Scooters again

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PinzaC55

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Its a fascinating euphemism to call them "scooters" :lol: I was walking across Ouse Bridge in York a few days and an old guy was bowling along the other pavement at a hell of a lick - he took up 2/3 of the pavement it was so big!
Its a ridiculous issue but I have a feeling he will go to the European Court Of Human Rights and win.
 

12CSVT

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Is there any reason why people can't use conventional wheelchairs if they wish to travel by train ? Some of these 'scooters' are almost big enough to be classifield as cars (and probably no smaller than those 3 wheeled purpose built cars for the disabled you used to see on the roads about 30 - 40 years ago).
 

Clip

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Be good to see a pic of said scooter. I saw a 3 wheeler in a mobility shop over the weekend and it was nearly the size of a motorized trike.
 

swt_passenger

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Some of these 'scooters' are almost big enough to be classifield as cars (and probably no smaller than those 3 wheeled purpose built cars for the disabled you used to see on the roads about 30 - 40 years ago).
There's an element of hitting the nail on the head there, I think. ISTM that the demise of those older generation three wheelers was one of the main reasons for the growth of the current generation of larger scooters...

I doubt anyone would have attempted to take one of those light blue three wheelers on a train - unless anyone knows diffferent ... :lol:
 

Yew

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The solution should be for some authority to loan them a smaller 'mobility scooter'?
Some supermarkets have scooters insotre for people to borrow, maybe TOC's and local councils could team together to create a similar policy, where people using public transport with disabilities can use a scooter from a pool kept at train/bus stations?
 
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Is there any reason why people can't use conventional wheelchairs if they wish to travel by train ? Some of these 'scooters' are almost big enough to be classifield as cars (and probably no smaller than those 3 wheeled purpose built cars for the disabled you used to see on the roads about 30 - 40 years ago).
It's a good question. No easy answer. I guess, some might say that they would need someone to accompany them, in that case? As a wheelchair user myself, I understand where you are coming from.
 

142094

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Three incidents that involved scooter users on the Tyne and Wear Metro in a couple of years were enough to get them banned - and those were the ones publicised. Wheelchairs and electric wheelchairs are fine, but I do not understand why people think that they should be allowed to take something that is much larger, heavier and runs at a higher speed on a train. I'm sure a woman was killed last year after a scooter knocked into her, causing her to fall and bang her head.
 

Jonny

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Oh, and you need quite a bit of mobility to get on a "mobility scooter" in the first place.
 

jopsuk

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In this case, a mobility scotter is probably the right thing for the chap concerned as he'll likely be able to walk short distances comfortably on his prosthetic, but may struggle with more than five or ten minutes walking. A scooter therefore gives hime a much bigger range- in the past, he'd have been much more "trapped" with where he could go and what he could do.

But they're not suitable for trains, unless they can be folded up and carried on board.
 

jopsuk

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Ivo, jcollins' link is perhaps a perfect example for you! Doesn't need a heavy electic wheelchair, but can't use a manual wheelchair. Solution- lightweight foldable scooter. In this case though it is one that the railway company allow to be carried on trains, but are applying the ruling that it can't be driven on and off them.
 

Michael.Y

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Which is why ToCs have assistance booking programs.
Sweeping generalisation maybe, but in my experience a number of disabled people are either ignorant of or uninterested in pre-booking assistance, choosing instead to turn up expecting assistance to be given at the drop of a hat, and then screaming discrimination when they are unable to be accommodated.
 

aformeruser

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Which is why ToCs have assistance booking programs.
And would they be allowed to fold up someone else's property or would they say they can't for insurance reasons?

Sweeping generalisation maybe, but in my experience a number of disabled people are either ignorant of or uninterested in pre-booking assistance, choosing instead to turn up expecting assistance to be given at the drop of a hat, and then screaming discrimination when they are unable to be accommodated.
Apparently some people do but customer relations don't always act on the request in time.
 

michael769

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And would they be allowed to fold up someone else's property or would they say they can't for insurance reasons?
As long as they have the consent of the owner of course. The whole point of getting insurance is to cover them if something goes wrong. If their insurers is saying they cannot do it they they are being ripped of and should find someone who actually does real insurance rather than taking money for nothing.

"Insurance reasons" is simply another spurious excuse trotted out when the HSA has smacked ones behind for falsely blaming them every time one needs a spurious made up excuse.
 

2Dogbox

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Be good to see a pic of said scooter. I saw a 3 wheeler in a mobility shop over the weekend and it was nearly the size of a motorized trike.
The worst ones are the modded ones. Souped up engines, massive rear spoiler, 18" alloys. Try getting one of them on your dogbox on a Saturday morning.
 
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Sweeping generalisation maybe, but in my experience a number of disabled people are either ignorant of or uninterested in pre-booking assistance, choosing instead to turn up expecting assistance to be given at the drop of a hat, and then screaming discrimination when they are unable to be accommodated.
As a disabled person myself, I accept what you say is largely true. However, there are occasions, due to unforeseen circumstances, when it may be necessary to travel at short notice. It has happened twice, to me, in my recent trip to Scotland. Also I had to come back from HGT to LDS, earlier in the year, due to a car problem. In all three cases, the relevant TOCS (Scotrail & Northern) were OK about it.

I can see that it can cause problems, though.
 

Michael.Y

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As a disabled person myself, I accept what you say is largely true. However, there are occasions, due to unforeseen circumstances, when it may be necessary to travel at short notice. It has happened twice, to me, in my recent trip to Scotland. Also I had to come back from HGT to LDS, earlier in the year, due to a car problem. In all three cases, the relevant TOCS (Scotrail & Northern) were OK about it.

I can see that it can cause problems, though.
You misunderstand slightly - I didn't mean to infer that disabled people are a burden to the railways - far from it. We are very very capable of carrying wheelchairs and guiding blind people etc. at a moment's notice.

I refer instead to the thankfully small but vocal percentage of people who expect the railway to act as their own personal chauffeur / taxi / portering service, calling upon resources that in some cases simply do not exist. I accept able-bodied people do this too - people expecting me to monitor their luggage for example or to hold the train while they have a cigarette! - but for disabled people to cry "discrimination" when situations do not necessarily present themselves as they would like is, unfortunately, unacceptable. Being disabled does not automatically equate to absolving oneself of any responsibility for one's circumstances. The world is regretfully not 100% disability friendly and as such a little leeway on both sides of the coin is required.

Coming back to the original point, I would say this : We can accommodate, we can provide access where possible, and we can do what we can where we can how we can. But we cannot and will not break, bend or distort any rule or procedure which will cause disruption or, more seriously, be unsafe to us, passengers or to infrastructure. If a train cannot carry a mobility scooter, it cannot carry a mobility scooter, even if the story is sold to the Daily Mail.
 
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You misunderstand slightly - I didn't mean to infer that disabled people are a burden to the railways - far from it. We are very very capable of carrying wheelchairs and guiding blind people etc. at a moment's notice.

I refer instead to the thankfully small but vocal percentage of people who expect the railway to act as their own personal chauffeur / taxi / portering service, calling upon resources that in some cases simply do not exist. I accept able-bodied people do this too - people expecting me to monitor their luggage for example or to hold the train while they have a cigarette! - but for disabled people to cry "discrimination" when situations do not necessarily present themselves as they would like is, unfortunately, unacceptable. Being disabled does not automatically equate to absolving oneself of any responsibility for one's circumstances. The world is regretfully not 100% disability friendly and as such a little leeway on both sides of the coin is required.

Coming back to the original point, I would say this : We can accommodate, we can provide access where possible, and we can do what we can where we can how we can. But we cannot and will not break, bend or distort any rule or procedure which will cause disruption or, more seriously, be unsafe to us, passengers or to infrastructure. If a train cannot carry a mobility scooter, it cannot carry a mobility scooter, even if the story is sold to the Daily Mail.
Absolutely agree with you, on the points you have made. I'm sick and tired, of the small but vocal minority of disabled people, who make the lives of TOC employees (and the rest of the travelling public) difficult.

Not for one moment, though, did I think, you were inferring that disabled people were "a burden to the railways"??:o If I did think that, my response to you might have been very different!:mad: I was making the point (not very well?) that some disabled people have unforeseen rail journeys. My own experiences has been positive ones. I'm happy to make that clear.

It will be controversial, to say this, but some disabled people are their own worst enemies sometimes. My own experiences with Northern have always been positive ones.
 
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