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Scotland: “Beyond Level Zero” 09th August

Huntergreed

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For us in Scotland, “freedom day” is supposed to take place on 09th August, with an announcement tomorrow on what the ‘new normal’ will look like expected tomorrow.

The current ‘expectation’ seems to be that the mask mandate will be retained until next spring, with all other measures being eased/removed completely. Personally I really wouldn’t be happy with this as I don’t think masks make any significant difference and it’ll give the authoritarian busybodies throughout society a free pass to keep hassling us.

I do, however, hope for some positive news for the nightclub industry, a removal of distancing and capacity limits for events and hospitality, and the removal of the isolation requirement for the double-jabbed.

What are you expecting and hoping to hear tomorrow and what is the correct way forward for Scotland?
 
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Merseysider

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I’ll be keeping a close eye on this as I’ll be back in Scotland for a couple of days next week.

To me it seems ridiculous to continue with a mask mandate (including in shops where you can distance, on buses with open windows, when moving around pubs where you won’t be wearing one to eat, etc...) and simultaneously have nightclubs open.

I know plenty in the lowlands are going to Carlisle and Newcastle for their nights out anyway - it seems pointless to continue with restrictions on businesses and on gathering in general.

Looking at the trend in Scotland, and the most recent data (1st August: 3 deaths, close to all adults vaccinated, just 62 in intensive care) I would argue that the benefits of opening up completely outweigh the risks of doing so.
 

fraser158

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No way am I wearing a mask into next year. Think I’ll develop “severe distress”* at having to wear them several hours a day.

* As the law allows.
 

RPI

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I must say I used to go to Scotland twice a year at least for mini breaks, but the way St Nichola as been over the past 18 months, particularly towards the English, means I won't bother going there to spend my money and if I have to wear a mask even more of a reason not to. I wouldn't even mind if there was actual hard evidence behind the mask debate.... but there isn't.
On a positive its made us explore England a bit more as Scotland was always our go to, now have a week in Yorkshire for October half term and looking at Norfolk for next spring.
This year explored the lakes and been to Cornwall a few times (though Cornwall isn't really that far for us!)
 

takno

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For us in Scotland, “freedom day” is supposed to take place on 09th August, with an announcement tomorrow on what the ‘new normal’ will look like expected tomorrow.

The current ‘expectation’ seems to be that the mask mandate will be retained until next spring, with all other measures being eased/removed completely. Personally I really wouldn’t be happy with this as I don’t think masks make any significant difference and it’ll give the authoritarian busybodies throughout society a free pass to keep hassling us.

I do, however, hope for some positive news for the nightclub industry, a removal of distancing and capacity limits for events and hospitality, and the removal of the isolation requirement for the double-jabbed.

What are you expecting and hoping to hear tomorrow and what is the correct way forward for Scotland?
Obviously getting rid of the mask mandate would be the sensible way forward. I may just start going back into shops anyway - worrying about people objecting to exemptions is just getting a bit old now.

I suspect the news on nightclubs will be something catastrophically stupid like no-dancing and masks required. That would be a perfect way for Sturgeon to let the nightclub industry collapse, whilst blaming it on Sunak and pretending she did all she could.
 

Merseysider

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I suspect the news on nightclubs will be something catastrophically stupid like no-dancing and masks required. That would be a perfect way for Sturgeon to let the nightclub industry collapse, whilst blaming it on Sunak and pretending she did all she could.
“Nightclubs may open, but music may not be played, patrons must stand on blue circles 2m apart, order drinks via an app, not look at anyone outside of their household, and be in bed by midnight” :lol:
 

duncanp

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“Nightclubs may open, but music may not be played, patrons must stand on blue circles 2m apart, order drinks via an app, not look at anyone outside of their household, and be in bed by midnight” :lol:

Ssshhhh!!!

Don't give Nicola Sturgeon ideas ahead of the announcement tomorrow.
 

Huntergreed

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The real question is not whether the mask mandate continue, because it obviously will, but rather where it will apply (for instance could it be revoked in pubs but retained in shops and public transport?)

The main reason for the continuation of the mask mandate is being given as “to give those who are vulnerable reassurance”
 

Failed Unit

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The real question is not whether the mask mandate continue, because it obviously will, but rather where it will apply (for instance could it be revoked in pubs but retained in shops and public transport?)

The main reason for the continuation of the mask mandate is being given as “to give those who are vulnerable reassurance”
It will also be a question of enforcing it. If people can get away with it, they will stop wearing them. I have seem many disagreements but rarely are the police called. People already do compare the statistics both sides of the boarder. In terms of deaths per 100k population there isn’t much difference. But the SNP seems to have done well at convincing Scotland their approach was better then Englands. If people see this trend continue they will ask questions.

keeping the mask debate alive stops people asking about the tragic drug deaths in Scotland. Everyone is arguing about that and ignoring a problem that is killing people.
 

Huntergreed

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Another thing I expect to differ is that I expect Scotland will make it mandatory to do a PCR test when double-jabbed to release yourself from the isolation requirement, whereas England will not.

Given how Scotland is generally stricter than England and tend to do things different for the sake of it, I entirely expect this.
 

Failed Unit

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Another thing I expect to differ is that I expect Scotland will make it mandatory to do a PCR test when double-jabbed to release yourself from the isolation requirement, whereas England will not.

Given how Scotland is generally stricter than England and tend to do things different for the sake of it, I entirely expect this.
Nicola is always right and dont you forget it. Remember they banned alcohol on trains 10 years ago in the evening, forgetting that the problem was passengers were already drunk and guards don’t leave their rear cabs anyway in the evening.
 

takno

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Another thing I expect to differ is that I expect Scotland will make it mandatory to do a PCR test when double-jabbed to release yourself from the isolation requirement, whereas England will not.

Given how Scotland is generally stricter than England and tend to do things different for the sake of it, I entirely expect this.
I'm not sure they will go for this. Certainly if they do then it's the thing which has most potential to sink the government. South of the border pretty much all opposition parties (including most of the Tory party) is aligned on the idea that the pingdemic is worse than the problems it is trying to solve. If anything the opposition parties north of the border are slightly more anti-restriction than their English counterparts. It will leave Sturgeon badly-exposed to the growing internal party dissent.

keeping the mask debate alive stops people asking about the tragic drug deaths in Scotland. Everyone is arguing about that and ignoring a problem that is killing people.
It's interesting that they've been willing to throw their own (fairly unimpressive) efforts on rehabilitation under the bus rather than acknowledge that lockdown has made this crisis massively worse than it otherwise needed to. In the same vein they will doubtless try to blame the rise in alcohol use and abuse on alcohol pricing, or even worse bars, rather than admit that stressed lonely people stuck in a potentially difficult home environment are pretty much bound to abuse whatever they can get their hands on.
 

35B

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“Nightclubs may open, but music may not be played, patrons must stand on blue circles 2m apart, order drinks via an app, not look at anyone outside of their household, and be in bed by midnight” :lol:
You haven't said who's bed
 

Class 33

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Can't believe it if sturgeon intends to keep that face mask mandate nonsense going all the way till next Spring!! What an earth would be the point in keeping it all the way till then?

I too was hoping to do a trip up to Scotland this year, maybe around September when I thought all this nonsense could well be finished there. But whilst that face mask mandate nonsense is still in place there, I'll not be bothering. Which is a shame.
 

takno

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Can't believe it if sturgeon intends to keep that face mask mandate nonsense going all the way till next Spring!! What an earth would be the point in keeping it all the way till then?

I too was hoping to do a trip up to Scotland this year, maybe around September when I thought all this nonsense could well be finished there. But whilst that face mask mandate nonsense is still in place there, I'll not be bothering. Which is a shame.
I am honestly half-tempted to go and live in Berwick, Newcastle or London for a few months. I mean I'm far too lazy to actually organise it, but the idea is genuinely quite appealing.
 

Merseysider

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What an earth would be the point in keeping it all the way till then?
Quite. Whose life will a mask be saving when everybody is vaccinated, potentially with a booster too?
But whilst that face mask mandate nonsense is still in place there, I'll not be bothering. Which is a shame.
For what it’s worth, you probably won’t get any hassle for not wearing a mask - many exemptions are not visible. Don’t let it put you off a trip.
 

Butts

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The real question is not whether the mask mandate continue, because it obviously will, but rather where it will apply (for instance could it be revoked in pubs but retained in shops and public transport?)

The main reason for the continuation of the mask mandate is being given as “to give those who are vulnerable reassurance”

What reassurance this is absolute nonsense ?

Masks should be made optional, those who want to carry on wearing them fine, the rest of us let us get on with our lives without them.

I wonder what percentage would continue to utilise them if they were optional ?
 

Falcon1200

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Travelling through Glasgow Central this morning it was noticeable how many people were not wearing masks, the most I have seen anywhere in Scotland since the order was imposed. Whether or not the First Minister rescinds the order people are utterly fed up and as more decide not wear a mask, even more will feel able to do the same. At the end of the day whatever measures she announces must have public support or they become unworkable.
 

Failed Unit

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What reassurance this is absolute nonsense ?

Masks should be made optional, those who want to carry on wearing them fine, the rest of us let us get on with our lives without them.

I wonder what percentage would continue to utilise them if they were optional ?
I think if they were optional you would see the same as England. Lots in the morning very few in the evening (after pub eviction time)

I know we have a thread on it but I notice in England people are more likely to wear them in a shop then a 10m walk from the door of a pub / restaurant to a table.

I think if things like nightclubs remain closed / restricted then people will be just going to northern England. I certainly won’t be going to Scotland if it is in reality going to a more restricted country then I a leaving. It will be interesting how Nicola reacts if people don’t bother going and Scottish go clubbing in England. But political differences aside I believe both countries have the same views of the restrictions (with similar portions in favour / against).
 

route101

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It will also be a question of enforcing it. If people can get away with it, they will stop wearing them. I have seem many disagreements but rarely are the police called. People already do compare the statistics both sides of the boarder. In terms of deaths per 100k population there isn’t much difference. But the SNP seems to have done well at convincing Scotland their approach was better then Englands. If people see this trend continue they will ask questions.

keeping the mask debate alive stops people asking about the tragic drug deaths in Scotland. Everyone is arguing about that and ignoring a problem that is killing people.
I was in Glasgow Central, police don't bother anyone now who is not wearing a mask.
 

Merseysider

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I was in Glasgow Central, police don't bother anyone now who is not wearing a mask.
Same when I was in Edinburgh (Waverley) yesterday. A group of 4 police said nothing when others, and eventually I, walked past them unmasked.
 

liam456

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Face coverings still compulsory and to be "mandated in law for some time to come".
 

Huntergreed

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From next Monday, Scotland will move beyond current level zero restrictions in line with the government's proposals from 3 weeks ago.

Cases are steadily falling (down 2/3 from 4 weeks ago) and hospitalisations and ICU admissions are falling, meaning we can ease, but must be cautious as the virus is still with us.

12-17 year olds who are vulnerable are now receiving invitations for vaccination, this is hoped to be done by the end of August and boosters are being prepared if recommended by JCVI for Autumn.

Changes beyond level zero:

No venues will be legally required to close from 09th August (everywhere can open), but it is important that to remember that COVID is not over and the pandemic is still ongoing. Long-covid and variants might make us move backwards as we go on.

For now, it will be mandatory to wear face coverings in all current settings (shops, public transports and hospitality) and this will remain for a long time to come.

Test and trace will remain for a long time to come, and venues will still have to collect contact details by law.

Localised restrictions and travel restrictions will be used to protect against variants in future.

Home working will remain encouraged.

Large scale events (outdoors over 5,000 and indoors over 2,000) will need to apply for permission to ensure that there is suitable risk mitigation in place.

Social distancing is not mandated, but it is encouraged indoors.

From 09th August, close contacts will not be automatically required to isolate. If someone is a close contact, they must take a test and, if this test come backs negative, they can release from isolation.

Most mitigations will remain in Schools for 6 weeks. Masks will be mandatory and social distancing will be mandatory for 'staff and staff' and 'staff and pupils'. Secondary school teachers and pupils will need to wear masks during classes for the first 6 weeks.
 
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liam456

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Best we could have hoped for, and nothing super surprising has come up at least.

I'm glad that the First Minister makes reference to the legal tests for restrictions as being "necessary and proportionate" even if masks still remain compuslory by law, although I'll take it.....
 

Huntergreed

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Another thing I expect to differ is that I expect Scotland will make it mandatory to do a PCR test when double-jabbed to release yourself from the isolation requirement, whereas England will not.

Given how Scotland is generally stricter than England and tend to do things different for the sake of it, I entirely expect this.
Didn't I say this would happen!
 

liam456

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Well predicted, though I do agree with the mandation. It would only add at best 48h to isolation, but will be a safer way of doing things.
 

Failed Unit

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Must admit. I won’t be hurrying back to Scotland with this proposal. (But many will be happy with this news. )
 

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