Scotland bus services act

[CICERO55]

Does anyone know if the councils will be able to set up either arms lengths council owned bus companies or directly run as pre 1986? Or only as a last resort? Thanks

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Does anyone know if the councils will be able to set up either arms lengths council owned bus companies or directly run as pre 1986? Or only as a last resort? Thanks

Lothian buses operate in this manor, I see no reason why others could'nt provided they keep a distance from the actual operation

 

[GaryMcEwan]

SPT in Glasgow have their own fleet but tender out routes to other operators.

 

[overthewater]

Don't forget Dumfries and Galloway council has also set up its own bus company. Actually this is how East Coast buses come about aswell. MP,MPS etc wanted new council company etc

 

[Mwanesh]

Newport residents in Wales are up in arms against their council owned bus company.Most of the people are of the opinion the firm should be sold to Stagecoach.They see Stagey buses coming and going and theirs are no show

 

[Jordan Adam]

Aberdeen City Council have been looking in to it for years. But not much has came from it thankfully.

The thought of Aberdeen City Council operating bus services is pretty scary.

 

[carlberry]

Aberdeen City Council have been looking in to it for years. But not much has came from it thankfully.

The thought of Aberdeen City Council operating bus services is pretty scary.

Where the operator is actually allowed to operate properly they can be as good (or better!) then any of the commercial operators. Reading and Nottingham come to mind as examples. Where the 'arms length' operation is purely a paper exercise the operator can end up being constrained by politics, budget and Councillors own interests (or the intrests of the more vocal members of their ward) to the detriment of the service.

 

[overthewater]

Lothian is the best example. Isnt rosco one that was dire?

 

[Great_Western]

Newport residents in Wales are up in arms against their council owned bus company.Most of the people are of the opinion the firm should be sold to Stagecoach.They see Stagey buses coming and going and theirs are no show

Newport Bus go to show that not all councils are at all competent or better at running buses than the private sector. My local route has a PVR of 4, but more often than not only one bus is left to do the whole circuit. I'm lucky, I can use the Stagecoach Cymru 15 & X3, which on the whole are exceptionally reliable. Unfortunately most areas do not have that alternative.

 

[GusB]

Aberdeen City Council have been looking in to it for years. But not much has came from it thankfully.

The thought of Aberdeen City Council operating bus services is pretty scary.

At the rate Lothian are going with their World Domination plans, will we see them running services in Aberdeen soon?

 

[goldisgood]

Any bus operator can be good, it just takes a bit of effort. All that's really required is a stable network with decent fares, friendly, regular drivers and a modern (at least clean) fleet.

 

[Jordan Adam]

At the rate Lothian are going with their World Domination plans, will we see them running services in Aberdeen soon?

Probably. The 4 year olds who manage Lothian will get bored of West Lothian soon and then move on to Stagecoach East Scotland, RyanAir or Scotrail....

 

[overthewater]

Probably. The 4 year olds who manage Lothian will get bored of West Lothian soon and then move on to Stagecoach East Scotland, RyanAir or Scotrail....

The way he going about it is bonker, If he goes after Stagecoach he will get ripped to pieces

 

[Jordan Adam]

The way he going about it is bonker, If he goes after Stagecoach he will get ripped to pieces

I think Borders will be next to be honest.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Isnt rosco one that was dire?

Yeah - he was really incompetent whilst working for Boss Hogg......

I wrote on here three months ago about my observations when travelling in South Wales one Saturday viz

"I got slower variant of the 30 with Cardiff Bus Omnicity 723. This has been lightly refurbished and the internal marketing (Best Impressions) was full of pretty, aspirational people. The similar machines of Newport Bus look tired, with the NB operation having a slight whiff of death about it."

My impression was of Newport Bus being stuck in a different age - resolutely analogue in a digital world almost. The fleet is typified by ageing vehicles and the feel of continued underinvestment. Service frequencies are especially obtuse such as the Ringland services that on Saturdays operate every 24 minutes (combining to form a 12 min headway) whilst other routes seem to have quite broad headways.

 

[Darklord8899]

At the rate Lothian are going with their World Domination plans, will we see them running services in Aberdeen soon?

aye I think you might be right lol

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Any bus operator can be good, it just takes a bit of effort. All that's really required is a stable network with decent fares, friendly, regular drivers and a modern (at least clean) fleet.

Even a 10 year old bus with a £10k refurb can look new and feel good to sit in, look at lothians latest ex-londoners

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Probably. The 4 year olds who manage Lothian will get bored of West Lothian soon and then move on to Stagecoach East Scotland, RyanAir or Scotrail....

Still, lothian will have to learn that reputation alone isnt enough to gain you patronage, they’ve got lucky over many years of improvements in edinburgh, particularly because LRT have always been part of edinburgh, loyalty from the residents if you like..

 

[Jordan Adam]

Even a 10 year old bus with a £10k refurb can look new and feel good to sit in, look at lothians latest ex-londoners

First Aberdeen's B7LAs were refurbished in late 2015 (almost 11 years old at the time), really brought them up to a modern day standard. Even now 3 years on they're quite tidy inside. Same with the Platinum refurbs on the B7RLE and B9TLs. Lothian tend to be pretty good at midlife refurbs too... Not to mention the Geminis in Glasgow which are getting the likes of USB chargers fitted.... Stagecoach just can't relate!

 

[Journeyman]

Still, lothian will have to learn that reputation alone isnt enough to gain you patronage, they’ve got lucky over many years of improvements in edinburgh, particularly because LRT have always been part of edinburgh, loyalty from the residents if you like..

That loyalty is something that makes Lothian unique, I think. Most people don't seem to care very much about who operates their buses, but people in Edinburgh view Lothian Buses as "theirs", and really feel they have a stake in the business. If anyone attempted to sell them off, there would probably be rioting on the streets. I found this out when I did some work for Edinburgh Trams - I was one of the hosts on board when the first completed vehicle went on display in Princes Street. Loads of people saw the trams as a threat to the buses, and were extremely angry about it - I don't think that attitude has prevailed in any of the other cities that have built trams.

 

[smtglasgow]

That loyalty is something that makes Lothian unique, I think.

I think this is important. Most people have no understanding of ownership in the bus industry (and my Glaswegian granny used the Corporation bus until she died a few years ago), but at some deep level there is an emotional tie between the people of Edinburgh and ‘their’ bus company. Probably the reason it survives is that Lothian have never seriously abused the relationship. Their whole schtick has been quality and the fact that even the oldest vehicles are smartly turned out helps. The problem is that they risk being distracted by all their new ventures – several of which have the potential to land the company with significant losses. I think the main Lothian Buses operation is probably as good as it gets in the UK in 2018, but I’m still scratching my head about what they’re trying to do out west.

 

[Neil Urquhart]

Edinburgh is in a very unique position with the relationship between the operator LB and the public. The Edinburgh public mostly like LB partially for historical reasons, partially due to the massive amount of marketing and mostly due to the service actually being quite good. For an example over 10,000 people turned up to LB's last garage open day (and that doesn't include those who were riding) on the vintage bus service alongside the open day.

Interesting to hear the comments about LB management, there have been a lot of changes over the past few years as the previous team have retired. The current team is expansionist, looking at operations outside of the City and going back into coaching/tours. In some ways this makes sense, there can't be much more demand for services within the city so, if you wish to make more money (which I believe the shareholders would like) you have to diversify. I'd be very surprised if LB went to battle with Stagecoach or any other serious competitor, so far the expansion has been moving into areas from which other operators were retreating. Things change and not all of the changes at LB please me, but they are not there to please enthusiasts, and TBH it's good to have what amounts to a municipal operator.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Edinburgh is in a very unique position with the relationship between the operator LB and the public. The Edinburgh public mostly like LB partially for historical reasons, partially due to the massive amount of marketing and mostly due to the service actually being quite good. For an example over 10,000 people turned up to LB's last garage open day (and that doesn't include those who were riding) on the vintage bus service alongside the open day.

Interesting to hear the comments about LB management, there have been a lot of changes over the past few years as the previous team have retired. The current team is expansionist, looking at operations outside of the City and going back into coaching/tours. In some ways this makes sense, there can't be much more demand for services within the city so, if you wish to make more money (which I believe the shareholders would like) you have to diversify. I'd be very surprised if LB went to battle with Stagecoach or any other serious competitor, so far the expansion has been moving into areas from which other operators were retreating. Things change and not all of the changes at LB please me, but they are not there to please enthusiasts, and TBH it's good to have what amounts to a municipal operator.

First are not retreated in West Lothian though are they? They've just had a massive simplification of their network, the fleet there on the Edinburgh services is mostly under 5 years old and they're investing on the Airport service 600.

 

[Journeyman]

First are not retreated in West Lothian though are they? They've just had a massive simplification of their network, the fleet there on the Edinburgh services is mostly under 5 years old and they're investing on the Airport service 600.

They've just halved the service frequency between Linlithgow and Edinburgh on the 38, including removal of all buses from Bridgend and the Gyle. That's quite a major cutback!

 

[Jordan Adam]

They've just halved the service frequency between Linlithgow and Edinburgh on the 38, including removal of all buses from Bridgend and the Gyle. That's quite a major cutback!

The 38 is not part of their West Lothian network...

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The 38 is not part of their West Lothian network...

Partly anyways, not directly but does travel through winchburgh, kirkliston then into edinburgh

 

[Journeyman]

The 38 is not part of their West Lothian network...

That's a technicality. It happens to run through a large chunk of West Lothian, a lot of people in West Lothian use it, and it potentially creates a gap Lothian Buses could fill. The depot that operates it is neither here nor there.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I’d like to interject something, which would you rather travel in if you did’nt care about the whine of a ZF gearbox or the squeaks and rattles, from a point of view if you were only a passenger and not an enthuisiast or driver.

 

[Jordan Adam]

View attachment 53060 View attachment 53059 I’d like to interject something, which would you rather travel in if you did’nt care about the whine of a ZF gearbox or the squeaks and rattles, from a point of view if you were only a passenger and not an enthuisiast or driver.

You're just creating a pointless bashing fest. Both interiors are up to a modern standard. I prefer the Lothian interior palate as i'm quite a big fan of cream and reds. But again both are perfectly ok.

Partly anyways, not directly but does travel through winchburgh, kirkliston then into edinburgh

That's a technicality. It happens to run through a large chunk of West Lothian, a lot of people in West Lothian use it, and it potentially creates a gap Lothian Buses could fill. The depot that operates it is neither here nor there.

I agree with the point here. But... It's still not part of the "West Lothian network".

 

[Gingerbus1991]

You're just creating a pointless bashing fest. Both interiors are up to a modern standard. I prefer the Lothian interior palate as i'm quite a big fan of cream and reds. But again both are perfectly ok.




I agree with the point here. But... It's still not part of the "West Lothian network".

I am trying to make a point, if First were to ever pull out of livingston I’d highly think that passengers would prefer to travel in the lothian bus as opposed to the first one, the interior alone makes lcb refurbs feel far more inviting, simply look at east coast ops, the B8RLE and lately B5 deckers look the part and feel it too both inside and out.

Look across the whole country and you soon realise that first and stagecoach(well, in scotland anyways) are lagging with a country wide corporate livery thats just normal and doesnt feel special and one that is associated with poor reliability, late running and overpriced services.

I think many of us got off point from the topic...

Its not a given that buses would be better if operated from local authorities though, but deregulation across scotland has ruined services as a whole and actually pushed fares up, competition doesnt always drive fares south which leads to individual companys not gaining passenger numbers, ergo revenues decrease, the result is fares being increased to compensate, it isnt always to do with the cost of diesel.

Im all for re-regulation by the scottish government, or more particularly Jeremy Corbin’s views that private firms are out for profit alone.