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Scotland - Framework out of the pandemic - 23rd February 2021

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317 forever

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Sadly most people on my social media are saying it’s “far too early” and that this is our biggest mistake of the pandemic so far.

I’m stuck in as I have classes sadly, but I might head a wander into town and see what the atmosphere is like.
If it is too early, Nicola has probably timed these relaxations - and those affecting tourist venues from Friday - to earn herself back some Brownie points (and therefore votes) ahead of the Scottish elections on Thursday.
 
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kez19

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I didn't realise but this week my local paper dropped the "hunger games" type style on areas - levels/cases/deaths, I may understand its possiblly down to the easing off but just strikes to me as odd but in a way glad they got rid of it.
 

island

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I noticed that the BBC article also says:

There was discussion about distancing in England between households at the same table a short while back. No firm concluson was reached, but the BBC statement is consistent with the de facto situation that it isn't happening and nobody seems to be claiming any 'rules' are being broken.
In England, at least, social-distancing between different families at outdoor hospitality was guidance, not law. I believe Scotland is the same.
As in if the app tells you to? If so I don't think so because the legislation makes reference to a 'relevant person' having to tell you you must isolate, e.t.c. meaning the app, not being a 'relevant person' cannot legally compel you to isolate.
I don’t believe Scotland made self-isolation on notification of a positive test result or test & trace communication mandatory as England did.
You also don't have to have the app, of course. Absolutely no way is that privacy-invading horror that can randomly order you to stay at home going anywhere near my phone.
You’ve got it the wrong way round. The app is the better option because there’s no legal obligation (anywhere in the UK) to self-isolate if notified by the app, but if you don’t scan in on the app, you need to give contact details when visiting certain businesses. And notification by test & trace can trigger legally binding requirements to self-isolate in parts of the UK.
 

liam456

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I don’t believe Scotland made self-isolation on notification of a positive test result or test & trace communication mandatory as England did.
I'm quite surprised as I thought (first) that it wasn't mandatory anywhere, and that (secondly) if it were to be mandatory, England would have been the last place, considering its lighter-touch lockdown compared to Scotland, Wales and NI.
 

island

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I may be wrong; keeping up with the English regulations is challenge enough for me!
 

Butts

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Just watching the Leaders Debate on BBC1....

John Knox would be proud of all the killjoys hinting they don't want foreign travel to go ahead from May 17th.

Hopefully the back door via England will remain an option.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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Nicola Sturgeon also alluded to allowing trips abroad for family reasons before allowing travel for leisure and recreational purposes.

Answers on a postcard to St Andrews House on how this would be policed, please.
 

takno

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Nicola Sturgeon also alluded to allowing trips abroad for family reasons before allowing travel for leisure and recreational purposes.

Answers on a postcard to St Andrews House on how this would be policed, please.
I think sending a postcard to St Andrews House might be a bit provocative, particularly if you're pretending your holiday is not for leisure and recreation.
 

Cdd89

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Nicola Sturgeon also alluded to allowing trips abroad for family reasons before allowing travel for leisure and recreational purposes.

Answers on a postcard to St Andrews House on how this would be policed, please.
The usual way; an unverifiable declaration when you leave (with a £5,000 fine if you lie) and someone looking out for people in Hawaiian shirts :smile:
 

Butts

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The usual way; an unverifiable declaration when you leave (with a £5,000 fine if you lie) and someone looking out for people in Hawaiian shirts :smile:

The Calvinist ethos is certainly coming to the fore - we'll all be "Wee Free" if we are not careful.
 

duncanp

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The Calvinist ethos is certainly coming to the fore - we'll all be "Wee Free" if we are not careful.

Yes, I am sure Mrs Murell will have the COVID police on the train between Edinburgh and Manchester Airport:-

COVID Police (to a family in Hawaiian shirts and Spanish Sombreros with large suitcases) : "Why are you travelling to Manchester Airport?"

Family Of Four : "Just to do a bit of plane spotting - honest" <D

The mention of Calvinist ethos reminds me of a scene from Porridge

Fletcher (to Mr Mckay) : "..you're a strict Glasgow Presbyterian, aren't you?.."

Mr Mckay : "..what if I am?.."

Fletcher (to Godber) : "..you know, up there sex is only allowed when Rangers beat Celtic..." :D :D
 

Butts

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I'm hoping Nicola does not deliberately delay the introduction of Vaccination Passports and indeed has a plan to have them available from June at the latest (preferably just after I've had my 2nd jag !!) :E
 

greyman42

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Just watching the Leaders Debate on BBC1....

John Knox would be proud of all the killjoys hinting they don't want foreign travel to go ahead from May 17th.

Hopefully the back door via England will remain an option.
I hope that those who would use the back door are not the same ones hoping for independence.
 

Butts

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I hope that those who would use the back door are not the same ones hoping for independence.

The Front Door should be open negating the need for any gerrymandering !!

If people don't want to travel fine stay at home.

Moray should be sealed off immediately to prevent the spread of covid which may jeopardise the rest of Scotland's travel plans.
 
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greyman42

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Moray should be sealed off immediately to prevent the spread of covid which may jeopardise the rest of Scotland's travel plans.
This seems to be being kept under the radar for some reason, but it is a cause for concern.
 

Cdd89

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It appears Moray will be the first example of 'surge vaccination'. A far better idea than sealing it off (which just causes people to flee), in my view.
 

GusB

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This seems to be being kept under the radar for some reason, but it is a cause for concern.
It hasn't really been kept under the radar; it was fairly well covered in the news, although I don't know if it was seen as being important enough to make the UK-wide headlines.
It appears Moray will be the first example of 'surge vaccination'. A far better idea than sealing it off (which just causes people to flee), in my view.
From experience, the vaccination programme here is very slick. I had an appointment on Thursday and there was no problem being seen earlier than the time on my appointment letter. The vaccination centre has been set up in a vacant unit in a retail park and there is a direct shuttle bus running from the bus station. There were 20-odd booths, each one of which was staffed, and I was quite literally processed in a very short period of time!

There was a queue of staff from the nearby Asda store who had been offered the chance to be vaccinated without an appointment. I assume the local NHS will be contacting other large employers in the area to invite their staff to do likewise. It certainly makes sense for it to be done this way when there's a full complement of staff available.
 

devon_metro

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Quotes in this article suggest that Scottish Government has told Edinburgh Fringe venues that restrictions mat be in place (social distancing etc.) for six months longer than England (due to end 21 June). So theatres in London will be open with no distancing required, yet outdoor beer gardens in Edinburgh are going to be subject to distancing and masks. Firstly, what is the Scottish Government smoking. Secondly, who voted for these idiots (again)?
 

RomeoCharlie71

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Quotes in this article suggest that Scottish Government has told Edinburgh Fringe venues that restrictions mat be in place (social distancing etc.) for six months longer than England (due to end 21 June). So theatres in London will be open with no distancing required, yet outdoor beer gardens in Edinburgh are going to be subject to distancing and masks. Firstly, what is the Scottish Government smoking.
I am fairly confident social distancing, face coverings, etc, will be going absolutely nowhere in Scotland in 2021. Happy to be proven wrong though. This time next year seems optimistic at this point.

I would not be surprised if the subject of vaccine passports is brought up next week now that the election is over and done with. That's been a quiet topic the past 6 weeks during the election campaign, probably because if the Scottish Government confirmed domestic vaccine passports were coming, the SNP would feel the effect of that in the polls.

Secondly, who voted for these idiots (again)?
That's what happens when you have a daily show on BBC1 at 1215 where you trot out the same crap each day and call it "communication". From what has been broadcast in the media, a lot of people who voted SNP have given reasons to the effect of "well she did better than Boris" and "she was on TV every day".
 

devon_metro

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Six months????

If the government is seriously guiding it, then it's madness. If a fully vaccinated population is not enough to free us from this lockdown hell, then frankly, what is? Maybe if we vote for independence will restrictions be removed - is it Westminster's fault?
 

takno

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Six months????
Nicola didn't win the election, the SNP did. Whilst I wouldn't expect the greens to be anything other than lapdogs, I'm really not sure the rest of the SNP would stand for another 6 months of pointless and increasingly devastating restrictions. They certainly won't have the cover of support from the other parties once England has reopened.
 

devon_metro

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Nicola didn't win the election, the SNP did. Whilst I wouldn't expect the greens to be anything other than lapdogs, I'm really not sure the rest of the SNP would stand for another 6 months of pointless and increasingly devastating restrictions. They certainly won't have the cover of support from the other parties once England has reopened.

Do any of the SNP cabinet have the bottle to stand up to Nicola? Certainly most of them seem ineffective and weak. I guess ultimately the public is already largely disregarding many of the rules, so it will only be a matter of time. Howver the government approach is very damaging for business. Private individuals may choose to disregard the rules, but businesses must follow them, however daft. Plus they can't exactly plan. At least Boris offered some clarity.
 

Smidster

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Rules on face coverings and social distancing will not be going anywhere in the UK in the foreseeable future.

Scotland may be a little more cautious than England but not massively so.
 

Freightmaster

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Rules on face coverings and social distancing will not be going anywhere in the UK in the foreseeable future.
I thought they were being revoked (or at least changing from law to 'guidance') on June 21st in England,
which is the date of the fourth and final stage of the current lockdown easing roadmap?


Are you saying you believe there will be fifth/sixth stages of the roadmap, not implemented until Autumn??! o_O




MARK
 

Class 33

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Rules on face coverings and social distancing will not be going anywhere in the UK in the foreseeable future.

Scotland may be a little more cautious than England but not massively so.

We've been told by Johnson that there is a good chance social distancing nuisancing will be scrapped on 21st June. This had better be the case, especially with the VERY LOW hospital and deaths stats we now have. There's just absolutely no need whatsoever for this to continue any longer than NOW, let alone 21st June! There will be hell to play I think if this nonsense does drag on. Thousands upon thousands of businesses in the hospitality and leisure sector will collapse if this drags on.

Face coverings remains a mystery. A few weeks ago the press said that they would be scrapped on 21st June. Then just barely a few days later they report that face coverings must still continue beyond 21st June! As with social distancing nuisancing, there is just absolutely no need for this nonsense to continue beyond 21st June too.
 

Smidster

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I thought they were being revoked (or at least changing from law to 'guidance') on June 21st in England,
which is the date of the fourth and final stage of the current lockdown easing roadmap?


Are you saying you believe there will be fifth/sixth stages of the roadmap, not implemented until Autumn??! o_O




MARK

The Road-map is pretty clear that the June 21st step is not the revocation of all rules and regulations relating to Covid but rather the hope is that it is the point at which limits on "Social Contact" and business closures can be removed.

In particular para 128 of the Road-map states - "some measures may be required even after all adults have been offered a vaccine, because neither coverage nor effectiveness of the vaccine will be 100%. As a result, a significant proportion of the population will remain vulnerable to infection, some of whom will also be vulnerable to severe disease and death."

Things like face coverings will be among the last restrictions to be removed and are very very unlikely to go in June.

Social Distancing is also likely to continue unless you have proved yourself to be "clean" via either test or vaccine.
 

devon_metro

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The Road-map is pretty clear that the June 21st step is not the revocation of all rules and regulations relating to Covid but rather the hope is that it is the point at which limits on "Social Contact" and business closures can be removed.

In particular para 128 of the Road-map states - "some measures may be required even after all adults have been offered a vaccine, because neither coverage nor effectiveness of the vaccine will be 100%. As a result, a significant proportion of the population will remain vulnerable to infection, some of whom will also be vulnerable to severe disease and death."

Things like face coverings will be among the last restrictions to be removed and are very very unlikely to go in June.

Social Distancing is also likely to continue unless you have proved yourself to be "clean" via either test or vaccine.

I don't see this obsession with 100% protection. Frankly, the vaccine is the best we have (and will ever have). To continue with restrictions past that point is completely uncalled for. There has to be risk in life. With the vaccine it is greatly diminished. We don't impose draconian restrictions on everyday life for any other infections, so what's so special about COVID?
 

Jamesrob637

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So in simple terms, will I be allowed to have a pint indoors North of the border week commencing 17th of May, just as I will be allowed to South of it?
 

takno

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So in simple terms, will I be allowed to have a pint indoors North of the border week commencing 17th of May, just as I will be allowed to South of it?
Indoor alcohol is still planned to be allowed from the 17th - I assume the final word on that will come on Tuesday. IIRC the rules are a little bit more restrictive than down south, but fundamentally the pubs which haven't gone bankrupt and can cope with heavy social distancing will be allowed to let customers do their daytime and early evening drinking indoors.
 
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