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ScotRail booking/ticket office 'cuts'

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Southsider

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So having seeing 2 occasions in the last 12 months of a pensioner just looking in complete bafflement at a touchscreen TVM as if it had landed from outer space, just trying to purchase a ticket... was a complete figment of my imagination?
Unless things have changed recently, said pensioner would have been unable to purchase a concessionary ticket at the machine. Can they be obtained via the smartphone app?
 
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mde

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Unless things have changed recently, said pensioner would have been unable to purchase a concessionary ticket at the machine. Can they be obtained via the smartphone app?
Assuming you mean a ticket under one of the schemes linked to the bus pass (which vary in areas) - no. You can only purchase them from a booking office, or a member of staff with a machine.

Unsurprisingly, the RMT have emitted a hyperbole laden press release.

"Muggers paradise" is curious phrasing. Do the RMT really believe that their members who work in station grades have a security role - can they, for instance, actually see the CCTV in the station, or would they need to be alerted by the Customer Services Centres (Dunfermline / Paisley) to an incident?

I'm not in favour of cuts - particularly when there is a recognisable benefit to staffing, such as to provide mobility assistance and customer care - the former of which is tricky on some DOO services, without station staff; but, the RMT could do themselves some favours here.

RMT pledges to fight ScotRail ticket office plans



12 January 2022

RMT Press Office:

RMT pledges to fight plans to cut ticket office hours at 120 ScotRail stations and warns that cuts will create a “muggers paradise” across the network

RMT pledges to fight plans to cut ticket office hours at 120 ScotRail stations and warns that cuts will create a “muggers paradise” across the network

RAIL UNION RMT today condemned an announcement by Abellio ScotRail that it is proposing to cut opening hours at nearly all of its ticket offices across Scotland. The Company has published proposals to reduce ticket office hours at 120 stations, including the complete closure of three ticket offices.

RMT is wholly opposed to cuts to ticket offices and believes that these will deter passengers from the rail network and make it less accessible for disabled and elderly passengers. Cuts to ticket office hours worsen passenger service, safety and security by reducing the times that staff are guaranteed to be present at stations and make it far easier for operators to reduce overall staffing levels in the future.

The Scottish Government is already fully funding and managing the ScotRail franchise and will be directly operating it from April 2022. These short-sighted attacks on ticket offices make a mockery of the Scottish Government’s climate change and car reduction targets. RMT is therefore calling on the Scottish Government to intervene as a matter of urgency and withdraw these damaging proposals.

General Secretary Mick Lynch said:

“Cuts to ticket office hours will do nothing to restore passenger confidence in Scotland’s sustainable rail network which has a central role to play in delivering modal shift away from high carbon transport. These proposals affect nearly all of the ticket offices in Scotland and will undoubtedly worsen passenger service and accessibility as well as turning many of our stations into a mugger’s paradise.

“Failed operator Abellio has just weeks to go before it exits its role in Scotland’s railway. It has already proposed significant reductions in service levels and RMT questions why the Scottish Government is permitting it to propose more cuts that will harm Scotland’s railway. The Scottish Government is already fully funding the franchise and will be directly managing it from April 2022.

“It is disappointing that appears to be following the Westminster Government by presiding over a damaging cuts agenda rather than seeing the rail network as central to Scotland’s economic recovery. The Scottish Government should step in and urgently retract these proposals.

“RMT is firmly opposed to ticket office closures and cuts and will be campaigning publicly and politically in the coming weeks to oppose these short-sighted attacks on Scotland’s railway.”

Ends


Notes for Editors
ScotRail is proposing changes to opening hours at 120 stations including the closure of three ticket offices – details are available here - https://www.scotrail.co.uk/scotrail-ticket-office-consultation

The public consultation, held by the watchdog, Transport Focus, opens on 12th January 2022 for three weeks. Feedback can be provided in writing to Transport Focus Freepost (RTEH-XAGE-BYKZ), PO Box 5594, Southend on Sea, SS1 9PZ or by email to [email protected]
 
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Scott1

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Assuming you mean a ticket under one of the schemes linked to the bus pass (which vary in areas) - no. You can only purchase them from a booking office, or a member of staff with a machine.

Unsurprisingly, the RMT have emitted a hyperbole laden press release.

"Muggers paradise" is curious phrasing. Do the RMT really believe that their members who work in station grades have a security role - can they, for instance, actually see the CCTV in the station, or would they need to be alerted by the Customer Services Centres (Dunfermline / Paisley) to an incident?

I'm not in favour of cuts - particularly when there is a recognisable benefit to staffing, such as to provide mobility assistance and customer care - the former of which is tricky on some DOO services, without station staff; but, the RMT could do themselves some favours here.
Hmmm, I'm at a different TOC so can't comment on how ScotRail do things but on my patch our single staffed locations the role is quite all encompassing. The ticket office staff member is also responsible for opening and securing the station, cleaning toilets etc, litter picking, gritting and so forth. They do also have a CCTV monitor in most offices to keep an eye out so to speak. The downside to this is the ticket office may be unmanned, but it keeps the role more necessary then if they had a second person doing the other jobs.
 

Craig1122

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The solution there is simple, and is coming at some TOCs already. You have a button on the TVM connected to a call centre who put the ticket through for you. All you have to do is pay. Some will also have video so you can see each other too. This way one ticket office employee can cover lots of stations at the same time. Much more affordable.
I like this idea in theory although SWR have quietly abandoned it & replaced those machines with standard TVM's. My worry would be that in practice it would end up like station help points on some operators, rare that they're actually working and that someone answers.
 

mrd269697

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Where I live (and work) all our stations are staffed from first train until last. We don’t just sell tickets but that is our main role. At certain stations, a TVM is supplied and we still struggle with customer demand. We are faster than TVM’s, for a start. And having a member of staff around is a reassuring presence for many. Keep stations staffed.
 

centraltrains

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Looking at the specific reductions in times, reminds me very much of the London Midland 2011 reductions...
(https://web.archive.org/web/2011032...com/download/41850.9/ticket-office-hours-a-f/)

Doesn't seem to have caused too many problems around here from what I can tell, so I imagine it will end up being ok in Scotland too!
 

Deafdoggie

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This sounds like it was in addition to the ticket office staff, rather than closing the ticket office and moving staff out of the one place everyone knows they will be able to find a staff member.
Crewe closed their ticket counters and travel centre and were replaced by roving ticket sellers, whom I found to be much easier & better. There were two counter positions for those with more complex or time-consuming enquires along with railcard sales etc. The rest was all TVM. The new entrance contained only TVMs, and when the bridge from the car park to platform 12 existed that entrance had TVMs only too. If Crewe can manage, I'm sure remote Scottish stations can too.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Crewe closed their ticket counters and travel centre and were replaced by roving ticket sellers, whom I found to be much easier & better. There were two counter positions for those with more complex or time-consuming enquires along with railcard sales etc. The rest was all TVM. The new entrance contained only TVMs, and when the bridge from the car park to platform 12 existed that entrance had TVMs only too. If Crewe can manage, I'm sure remote Scottish stations can too.
If the TVMs at Crewe are similar to the decidedly sub-optimal ones which Avanti have rolled out elsewhere on their network, I have my doubts.
 

6Z09

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I’m not surprised there’s been usage drops as I once tried to buy a Railcard from my local office during the opening hours. Waiting Room was unlocked but there was a sign up saying they were doing other duties. I tried three times over two hours.

It’s no wonder they’ve had cuts especially since sometimes they don’t even open at all.
Spot on with that summary.
Pre Covid, many Booking Offices were not manned during advertised opening hours. And as you say ,even if manned, on occasions the staff were doing other duties, ie litter picking etc.
 

Deltic1961

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Scotrail have always had an issue with lack of staff to sell tickets.

In Aberdeen (when it was busy) there used to be massive queues at the barriers of people who either couldn't buy at the station or on the train. Also seen several tweets of the same thing happening at Glasgow Central.

Not the ticket office itself but still a requirement for staff to be available.
 

GLC

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Maybe this is an SPT specific thing, but I have never had an issue with boarding a train and buying a ticket from the Ticket Examiner on board. I know there are big signs saying “Buy before your board” but for people who aren’t comfortable operating a TVM, why can’t buying from the guard on board be an accepted solution, as it already is (somewhat) today?
 

hexagon789

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Maybe this is an SPT specific thing, but I have never had an issue with boarding a train and buying a ticket from the Ticket Examiner on board. I know there are big signs saying “Buy before your board” but for people who aren’t comfortable operating a TVM, why can’t buying from the guard on board be an accepted solution, as it already is (somewhat) today?
I think it's because ScotRail has no penalty fare policy, so really what could a conductor do?

I believe they are supposed to refuse to sell discounted tickets, but given the TVMs don't offer the full range of these anyway, it's a bit of a lost battle I think.
 

Scotrail314209

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I think it's because ScotRail has no penalty fare policy, so really what could a conductor do?

I believe they are supposed to refuse to sell discounted tickets, but given the TVMs don't offer the full range of these anyway, it's a bit of a lost battle I think.
Thats the policy, but I find that they'll sell discounted tickets anyway if you ask them. Only a certain few make you pay full fare (which I've never had).
 

Horizon22

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Scotrail have always had an issue with lack of staff to sell tickets.

In Aberdeen (when it was busy) there used to be massive queues at the barriers of people who either couldn't buy at the station or on the train. Also seen several tweets of the same thing happening at Glasgow Central.

Not the ticket office itself but still a requirement for staff to be available.

Whereas I've often seen major stations with multiple windows open and the staff twiddling their thumbs - there's a balance to be had and certain flexibity will be vital for peak seasons etc.
 
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Where I live (and work) all our stations are staffed from first train until last. We don’t just sell tickets but that is our main role. At certain stations, a TVM is supplied and we still struggle with customer demand. We are faster than TVM’s, for a start. And having a member of staff around is a reassuring presence for many. Keep stations staffed.
I imagine the stations in question sell more than a handful of tickets per hour, which is the criteria being used by ScotRail at the moment. At my local station demand is such that opening hours are being broadly preserved but I'd estimate the platform TVM is more popular than the ticket office. Passengers tend to go into the ticket office when there's a queue at the TVM or if they have a more complicated enquiry. But certainly I take the point that the staff provide useful services beyond just selling tickets.
Scotrail have always had an issue with lack of staff to sell tickets.

In Aberdeen (when it was busy) there used to be massive queues at the barriers of people who either couldn't buy at the station or on the train. Also seen several tweets of the same thing happening at Glasgow Central.

Not the ticket office itself but still a requirement for staff to be available.
Don't wish to apply an Aberdonian stereotype but is it a case of couldn't or just didn't? However I fully understand delays to leave the destimation station are a pain, especially for a short journey.
 

Mintona

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Would hate to see all ticket offices close. I have no idea how else to buy a ticket.
 

43066

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Would hate to see all ticket offices close. I have no idea how else to buy a ticket.

They would have to work out a way to keep priv tickets available. Presumably they would start selling them from TVMs.
 

Horizon22

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They would have to work out a way to keep priv tickets available. Presumably they would start selling them from TVMs.

An online method would be easier - some sort of code with your priv to input.
 

_toommm_

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They would have to work out a way to keep priv tickets available. Presumably they would start selling them from TVMs.

Isn't there a method to buy PRIV tickets online being developed by the RDG?

EDIT - Yep:


Online retailing of priv tickets - 20 October 2021​

Rail Staff Travel (RST) discounts are soon to be available online via a new website.

The new RST retail website will offer rail staff, safeguarded staff and their dependents who qualify for priv discounts the same retail experience as the public currently enjoy online.

Users will be able to buy discounted train tickets, plan journeys and make reservations online for trips across the National Rail network.

It will include retailing of leisure travel and reduced rate season tickets – but not international travel as this is covered by International Rail.

The website is due to go live in spring 2022. We will be sending details of how to sign up for the new website to the email addresses we have on record for each RST user.

It is therefore important that you have registered an up-to-date email address with Rail Staff Travel. You can do this by filling out the Change of Details XX21 form

Please be aware that the RST website is an additional booking method and does not replace the ability to buy tickets at stations or from onboard staff.

You can find out more information, frequently asked questions (FAQs) and regular updates on the rollout of the RST website on the FAQ page

20 October 2021
 

Deltic1961

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Don't wish to apply an Aberdonian stereotype but is it a case of couldn't or just didn't? However I fully understand delays to leave the destimation station are a pain, especially for a short journey.

Ha ha. Yes .... people from Aberdeen do tend to have short arms and deep pockets :)

As stated earlier in the thread, the TVMs at Dyce, Kintore and other places on the Inverness line are constantly broken, so that adds to the issue.
Also, there's only one per platform at Dyce which is a busy commuter station and people spend ages at them trying to buy tickets. Niot sure if it's the interface but it's not a quick process if you don't know the machines.
 

island

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I suspect those plans will be coming back

Remember the default of the railway as far as customer service is concerned should be 73 year old Bertha with a bad hip. She should be able to turn up at a station and be able to buy a ticket easily.
Whilst that may be your opinion, others may prefer that the railway save the costs incurred, accommodate 99% instead of 99.2% of passenger needs, and use the money saved to keep fares down. Law of diminishing returns.
 

Philip

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Whilst that may be your opinion, others may prefer that the railway save the costs incurred, accommodate 99% instead of 99.2% of passenger needs, and use the money saved to keep fares down. Law of diminishing returns.

And make large numbers of people redundant in the process? That's a double edged sword.

Rail travel is an expensive mode of transport and has been for at least the last 50 years, probably longer. Yes, tickets are too expensive currently and could do with reducing in price. But the scale of the fixed and operating costs means it can never be some people's definition of 'affordable' travel. Not withstanding poor operating performance and poor quality rolling stock, it is still a superior method of travel than both car and bus, so the cost of travel reflects this.
 

Deafdoggie

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Not withstanding poor operating performance and poor quality rolling stock, it is still a superior method of travel than both car and bus, so the cost of travel reflects this.
It's really not superior at all. Anyone with a car will tell you how much better that is. I've yet to meet anyone with a car who wishes they didn't have it so could travel by train more.
 

Deltic1961

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I've yet to meet anyone with a car who wishes they didn't have it so could travel by train more.

I do leave my car at home a couple of times a week and take the train to go in to town .... but only because I'm going to the pub.
 

Craig1122

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It's really not superior at all. Anyone with a car will tell you how much better that is. I've yet to meet anyone with a car who wishes they didn't have it so could travel by train more.
I've got a car, all things being equal I prefer a train journey. Sometimes that isn't practical for various reasons. Not for the first time I'm puzzled why some people are even on this forum!

Reminds me of someone I briefly worked with, when passengers asked him the best way to get somewhere he would invariably tell them to drive...
 

Ex-controller

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I agree that online ticketing, retailing if tickets, and even TVMs can be troublesome for certain groups, such as older people and pensioners. I can’t think of the last time I saw anyone from that group using the railway in Scotland. They, along with under 22s, get free bus travel here.

Policies like that, as well as the current decision making by those in charge of purse strings at Transport Scotland & Scotrail, will only further decline passenger numbers and make train travel the sole domain of a relatively narrow cross section of society.
 

Deafdoggie

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I agree that online ticketing, retailing if tickets, and even TVMs can be troublesome for certain groups, such as older people and pensioners. I can’t think of the last time I saw anyone from that group using the railway in Scotland. They, along with under 22s, get free bus travel here.
Pensioners and the disabled get free bus travel in England & Wales too. Yet many still use trains. And most of them are pretty good with technology too.
 

Rick1984

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My mum had exactly this problem at Kilmarnock station. Ticket office closed, TVM couldn't give her pensioner ticket. Luckily the guard came through the train on this occasion so she was able to purchase from him and didn't have to queue at Glasgow Central
 
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