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Scotrail Boxing Day Timetable Troubles

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Marty82

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Just spotted the following article in my local newspaper:

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp...tickets-for-days-trains-are-not-running1/amp/

ScotRail has been criticised for allowing passengers to buy tickets for days no trains will be running.

Heather Malcolm from Aberdeen has hit out at ScotRail after purchasing tickets in November for Boxing Day.

The bank worker is spending time with family in Forres and had booked the tickets not knowing there was no services due to arrive in the Granite City on December 26 with trains only scheduled in the central belt by ScotRail.


The 25-year-old said: “The worst thing for me is I had booked them online and all it said was that times may vary due to the winter timetable. It said nothing about there being no trains, I wouldn’t have booked them otherwise.

“I don’t drive, so now that I’m in Forres, I have no way of getting back home now. The plan was to travel back on Boxing Day in case the weather got bad.”

Heather was notified about there being no trains on December 26 by her dad. She said: “My dad took the train to the Aberdeen game on Saturday and he saw a sign saying no trains on Boxing Day and told us about it.

“I am quite angry about it. It is nice that I’m getting my tickets back but you think someone would notice that a train was booked for a day it wasn’t running or been in touch.”

A ScotRail spokesman said: “ScotRail is one of just a handful of operators across Britain to run any services on Boxing Day.

“Customers are always encouraged to check local arrangements before booking any travel.”

Over the weekend Aberdeen had two cancelled trains and 18 services affected.

It included 14 trains to and from both Glasgow Queen Street and Edinburgh being terminated before their scheduled destination.

Bus replacement services were put into effect with staff training being blamed for the disruption.

ScotRail Alliance managing director Alex Hynes said: “Training is ongoing so we can get services back to normal and we can expect an improvement in the coming weeks.”

A few questions:

Have Scotrail ever run trains to/from Aberdeen on Boxing Day?

Were trains ever actually likely to have run or was this a timetable error? The customer’s complaint seems valid to me as I take the winter timetable varying to mean timings rather than no trains at all!

Surely customers who have booked online should be contacted to inform them that their chosen train won’t be running. Also shouldn’t Scotrail be providing or reimbursing alternative transport?

All thoughts welcome.
 
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Esker-pades

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If a customer can buy a ticket, then that demonstrates that there is a service of some description. Obviously it is nieve (to say the least) to think that there will be public transport of any description on Boxing day and I would not make plans for it, unless it was specially advertised. I have spent every Christmas in London where I will not depend on any transport from the 24th until at least the 27th (depending on when Christmas falls).

ScotRail have been known to run Boxing day services, but only ever in the Central Belt/Strathclyde area. I don't think a Boxing day service has run on the Inverness to Aberdeen line for many years (from the article I gather that she is trying to travel from Forres to Aberdeen).

However, none of this detracts from the fact that she should not have been sold a ticket for a service that didn't exist.
 

47271

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This story also appeared The Scottish Sun yesterday. Looking at the ticket in the photo, it was purchased online as the customer says, and printed TOD on 3 December. So it's definitely not a ticket office error of any sort.

I've just tried to replicate the purchase on the Scotrail website, requesting travel on Boxing Day, and it clearly only throws up services between Forres and Aberdeen on 27 December. So either there was a timetable loaded in error, or something else odd has happened that's allowed her to bypass the timetable?

I've never been able to buy online for a Sunday when nothing's running on the Highland Main Line for example. I wonder if this was a temporary glitch when they were doing the hokey cokey with loading the December timetable last month - some of them were up and down a few times as I recall.

You could say she was a bit daft buying the ticket, but equally if she's going to work in a bank in Aberdeen that day then it isn't unreasonable for her to expect the railway to be running to Aberdeen too. If the Scotrail website - and we don't KNOW that this is where she bought the ticket, another booking engine might have done something weird - allows her to make a transaction then I have complete sympathy with her annoyance.

There hasn't been a Boxing Day service between Aberdeen and Inverness since at least the 1970s.
 
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ForTheLoveOf

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If Scotrail have sold the ticket, they are obliged to transport the passenger, whether or not they feel like running the trains on which basis of which they have sold the ticket.

Not only this, but they are obliged to compensate the passenger for any delay in arriving at their destination.

The passenger in question has accepted a very raw deal in returning their ticket for a refund. They should have insisted on travelling, as per the contract they had already made - and recovering the compensation for the inevitable delay.
 

Marty82

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If a customer can buy a ticket, then that demonstrates that there is a service of some description. Obviously it is nieve (to say the least) to think that there will be public transport of any description on Boxing day and I would not make plans for it, unless it was specially advertised. I have spent every Christmas in London where I will not depend on any transport from the 24th until at least the 27th (depending on when Christmas falls).

ScotRail have been known to run Boxing day services, but only ever in the Central Belt/Strathclyde area. I don't think a Boxing day service has run on the Inverness to Aberdeen line for many years (from the article I gather that she is trying to travel from Forres to Aberdeen).

However, none of this detracts from the fact that she should not have been sold a ticket for a service that didn't exist.

Those are generally my thoughts too however I'm not sure if it is naive for someone who maybe doesn't often travel by rail to trust ScotRail having a correct timetable even on Boxing Day considering that many people have to work due to people hitting the sales as well as going out eating and drinking.

This story also appeared The Scottish Sun yesterday. Looking at the ticket in the photo, it was purchased online as the customer says, and printed TOD on 3 December. So it's definitely not a ticket office error of any sort.

I've just tried to replicate the purchase on the Scotrail website, requesting travel on Boxing Day, and it clearly only throws up services between Forres and Aberdeen on 27 December. So either there was a timetable loaded in error, or something else odd has happened that's allowed her to bypass the timetable?

I've never been able to buy online for a Sunday when nothing's running on the Highland Main Line for example. I wonder if this was a temporary glitch when they were doing the hokey cokey with loading the December timetable last month - some of them were up and down a few times as I recall.

You could say she was a bit daft buying the ticket, but equally if she's going to work in a bank in Aberdeen that day then it isn't unreasonable for her to expect the railway to be running to Aberdeen too. If the Scotrail website - and we don't KNOW that this is where she bought the ticket, another booking engine might have done something weird - allows her to make a transaction then I have complete sympathy with her annoyance.

There hasn't been a Boxing Day service between Aberdeen and Inverness since at least the 1970s.

Yes, I have complete sympathy with her too. Whatever website sold her the ticket should surely have contacted her to advise of the error once realised otherwise there is little point in entering your contact details.

ScotRail replied to her tweet with:

Hi Hev, no services are advertised to run on Boxing Day. More info at http://ScotRail.co.uk/Christmas . ^CT

I wouldn't have been impressed with such a reply as it does nothing to help her situation and neither was she. She tweeted a photo of her ticket which shows the date and said the following:

On the website at the time it said that due to wither timetable the TIMES of the train may vary however nothing regarding zero services.

I'm hoping that ScotRail makes things up to her as if I was her I wouldn't be at all impressed.
 

Tetchytyke

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Obviously it is nieve (to say the least) to think that there will be public transport of any description on Boxing day

We had a full Saturday service on Metro 8am-8pm!

If the website sold her the ticket, she's right to assume there will be trains.
 

Starmill

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If a customer can buy a ticket, then that demonstrates that there is a service of some description. Obviously it is nieve (to say the least) to think that there will be public transport of any description on Boxing day and I would not make plans for it, unless it was specially advertised.
This is, with respect, not at all realistic. For example, a Sunday service at normal times runs on Metrolink on 26th December and this has been standard for many years.

Just because railway types see 26th December as a no-go date, hardly means it actually is in the modern economy. To the typical customer, while the idea of no service on Christmas day won't come as a surprise, the idea that there is no service at all on Boxing Day is quite bizarre.

You could say she was a bit daft buying the ticket
One could, but honestly, one would be wrong if one did. It's not the typical attitude. Lots of people are compelled to work on 26 December.
 
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A Challenge

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Surely you can use the same argument for this as for when a TOC removes services for a strike, like Northern, as they are in the timetable when booking and the itinary forms a contract with the relevant TOCs. Perhaps they should have removed the Boxing Day services earlier?
 

snookertam

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The website in question shouldn't have sold the ticket if there are no trains running on that date. Glasgow area services have run on Boxing Day for many years. The only two days that it's reasonable to expect no service at all are Xmas day and New Years Day. Any other day then people can be forgiven for believing there will be a service if they can buy a ticket.
 

yorkie

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Obviously it is nieve (to say the least) to think that there will be public transport of any description on Boxing day a..
It is not naive at all; several National Rail trains were running on Boxing Day. The passenger will have done a journey plan enquiry and been offered an itinerary.

I've just tried to replicate the purchase on the Scotrail website, requesting travel on Boxing Day, and it clearly only throws up services between Forres and Aberdeen on 27 December. So either there was a timetable loaded in error...
The working timetable applies by default unless an operator overrides it. The onus is on Scotrail to have its data correct at the time when people can purchase tickets.
You could say she was a bit daft buying the ticket...
Would someone who bought a High Wycombe to Haddenham & Thame ticket have been "a bit daft"? I say no.
f the Scotrail website - and we don't KNOW that this is where she bought the ticket, another booking engine might have done something weird - allows her to make a transaction then...
...Scotrail are obliged to convey the customer or pay the customer's costs for alternative travel.

It does not matter which website is used; the data for all accredited journey planners is specified by the TOCs. It's not the first time Scotrail have had incorrect data by any means; I am aware of other customers who purchased tickets with an itinerary, to discover at least one train on their itinerary is not running. I did provide some advice regarding this, but I didn't hear of the final outcome.

Scotrail needs to apologise, pay whatever expenditure was incurred, and put better safeguards in place.

As for this bit...
...you think someone would notice that a train was booked for a day it wasn’t running or been in touch.”
1) No, they cannot see what has been booked (unless reservations were available, opened and obtained)
2) No, there is no mechanism to do this; even if there was, it would be difficult to put the burden on a retailer and it would be a GDPR nightmare to require the original operator to contact the customer. And that still would only work if the customer who purchased the tickets had specified full contact details for the person using the ticket (problematical if a ticket is bought at a ticket office, or a corporate account, or on behalf of someone else etc)

It is true that some planners at at certain train companies have realised a train has been bookable in error, and then try to get it swept under the carpet, without informing other people in the company (such as front line or customer service staff), let alone get a message to customers. However people doing this whistle-blowing do not want the details to be posted on this forum.

The website in question shouldn't have sold the ticket if there are no trains running on that date.
It's difficult to know how to respond to this, as clearly there is a fundamental misunderstanding here!

OK let's say you run a website selling train tickets. How do you know if an operator has a mistake in their timetable? Are you suggesting operators add manual hacks to not show timetable data in certain areas and on certain days, and if so how would you even begin to do this?
Glasgow area services have run on Boxing Day for many years. The only two days that it's reasonable to expect no service at all are Xmas day and New Years Day. Any other day then people can be forgiven for believing there will be a service if they can buy a ticket.
How are people meant to know whether or not trains traditionally run on a particular line on a particular day? Surely they would be acting reasonably in using a journey planner, rather than ask someone who is aware of the historical nature of such services?
Surely you can use the same argument for this as for when a TOC removes services for a strike, like Northern, as they are in the timetable when booking and the itinary forms a contract with the relevant TOCs.
Yes if you book an itinerary and any TOC remove a train for any reason, you still have a contract, and any delay compensation will be measured against the original contract, and if no alternative rail service was available then the TOC whose service was deleted/cancelled is liable to pay for alternative transport costs incurred.
Perhaps they should have removed the Boxing Day services earlier?
It sounds like they left trains in the timetable for this date, so yes.
Whatever website sold her the ticket should surely have contacted her to advise of the error once realised otherwise there is little point in entering your contact details.
How will a retailer know?

Do all retailers know how to contact the person travelling? (in particular consider ticket offices, corporate accounts etc)

ScotRail replied to her tweet with:

I wouldn't have been impressed with such a reply as it does nothing to help her situation and neither was she. She tweeted a photo of her ticket which shows the date and said the following:
This sort of inadequate response is absolutely typical of train companies such as Scotrail and others. Some of them treat customers as if they don't matter. It's appalling.
 
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