Scotrail class 170 derailment - Stonehaven

[najaB]

I presume that these people

And maybe a fitter or two?

are also these people:

DB Cargo maintain a full time breakdown and recovery squad at Millerhill

 

[GB]

Most of the time breakdowns are recovered by the drivers of the failed train and the rescue loco, no? (And maybe a fitter or two?)

Not the same sort of breakdown. Train/loco failures are dealt with as you posted.

 

[GB]

Because in olden days the priority was to get trains running again

...Priority today is safety and then getting trains running again...is that wrong? Standards, H&S laws, investigation procedures and the infrastructure its self have all moved on since the "olden days".

 

[marks87]

Line now open with a 20mph speed restriction.

 

[InOban]

The same happens on the roads. Any accident which is fatal, or leaves someone so injured that death is probable, becomes a crime scene, and is frozen until the specialist team arrives. In rural areas that can mean that the road is closed for most of a day, and there may be no alternative route.

 

[Highlandspring]

Any reason why it's DBC? (Or even a FOC generally?)

DB Cargo currently have the national contract for breakdown and recovery services on Network Rail infrastructure. There are full time teams on standby at various locations 24/7/365 ready to respond to derailments, accidents etc.. They own and operate a fleet of Volvo SRS road rail vehicles (colloquially known as BRUFFs after the manufacturer of the previous vehicles used) which are used to recover derailed trains using MFD hydraulic rerailing equipment. They also do things like fitting wheelskates and they operate the Cowans Sheldon 75t breakdown crane fleet on behalf of NR.

Other companies such as Railway Support Services and Freightliner provide similar services for non NR infrastructure.

 

[alangla]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ugs-test-following-train-derailment-1-4819586

A ScotRail driver has failed a drugs test after his train was derailed by a suspected signalling fault, The Scotsman has learned. The driver was suspended after the routine drugs and alcohol test following the incident, which closed the Dundee-Aberdeen line for two days.

However, it is understood to be highly unusual for a driver to have tested positive for drugs. Drivers are regularly subject to random checks, along with other ScotRail staff, in addition to tests in the wake of such incidents. The drug traces identified in the test are still to be confirmed, it is understood. This includes their origin, whether from recreational or prescription drug...

Oh dear - surprised at the way this is being reported, given it’s being challenged & it’s unclear if it’s a prescription substance or something else

 

[mde]

Oh dear - https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ugs-test-following-train-derailment-1-4819586 - surprised at the way this is being reported, given it’s being challenged & it’s unclear if it’s a prescription substance or something else

I can't say I'm surprised at the quality of the reporting - it's about par for the course at The Scotsman these days.

 

[DarloRich]

Perhaps also because derailments are now so rare that few people have much experience of dealing with them. The same could be said for repairing mechanical signalling.

what a silly post. @Highlandspring has given you a much better response than your post deserved.

...Priority today is safety and then getting trains running again...is that wrong? Standards, H&S laws, investigation procedures and the infrastructure its self have all moved on since the "olden days".

many posters live in a fantasy that the world hasn't changed.

 

[InOban]

I can't say I'm surprised at the quality of the reporting - it's about par for the course at The Scotsman these days.

Am I right in thinking that after a car accident the driver(s) will be routinely breath tested, to regardless of the apparent cause of the accident?

 

[snookertam]

Oh dear - https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ugs-test-following-train-derailment-1-4819586 - surprised at the way this is being reported, given it’s being challenged & it’s unclear if it’s a prescription substance or something else

Was just on to say similar. Outrageous that it’s ended up in a newspaper, however someone at ScotRail needs to take a good look at themselves for allowing this to become public knowledge, whether they did so consciously or otherwise. I hope the driver has spoken to his union.

 

[najaB]

Outrageous that it’s ended up in a newspaper, however someone at ScotRail needs to take a good look at themselves for allowing this to become public knowledge, whether they did so consciously or otherwise.

I suspect this is something that's come out despite Scotrail rather than because of them - from the article:

ScotRail declined to comment. A spokesperson said: “While investigations are still ongoing, there is nothing to suggest the derailment was caused by the actions of the driver or a fault with the train.”

It may well be something that the Scotsman heard from a guy down the pub who heard it over the fence from his neighbour who shares an office with a guy...

 

[scotraildriver]

People fail these drugs tests quite regularly. It always turns out to be some prescription of over the counter thing they've taken, sometimes a long time ago. I've never known anyone to fail for illegal drugs.

 

[Tractor2018]

So many false positives too.

 

[scotraildriver]

I'm deeply concerned that someone is running to the press with people's medscreen results. These should be confidential.

 

[Chrism20]

I'm deeply concerned that someone is running to the press with people's medscreen results. These should be confidential.

I completely agree with this and as someone who works in HR (albeit not on the railways) there should only be a handful of people in the know about it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Am I right in thinking that after a car accident the driver(s) will be routinely breath tested, to regardless of the apparent cause of the accident?

Only if it is the kind of accident (significant danger to other vehicles, injury, dispute or damage to property other than road vehicles) where they are required to attend (and often HATOs will attend instead these days, and they have no law enforcement role). In the UK the Police do not attend most road accidents, it's left down to the drivers and their insurance policies to resolve.

This is not true in all countries - AIUI in the Netherlands if there is an accident the Police must be called.

 

[Chris M]

The police will routinely test for alcohol if they attend an accident that has caused damage and/or injury if they attend, regardless of the reason for their attendance (e.g. if they happen to be passing while not en-route to an emergency they will often see if their assistance is required). If HATOs respond and suspect that one or more of the drivers was under the influence, or if an allegation of this is made by one of the parties or a witness then police attendance will be requested and samples taken.

In all circumstances where they are allowed to test for drunk driving, police can also test for drug driving but in practice they only do this if they have suspicion drugs are involved.

 

[GusB]

The police will routinely test for alcohol if they attend an accident that has caused damage and/or injury if they attend, regardless of the reason for their attendance (e.g. if they happen to be passing while not en-route to an emergency they will often see if their assistance is required). If HATOs respond and suspect that one or more of the drivers was under the influence, or if an allegation of this is made by one of the parties or a witness then police attendance will be requested and samples taken.

What's a HATO?

 

[reb0118]

What's a HATO?

I'll take a guess at Highways Agency/Authority Traffic Officer?

 

[Chris M]

Sorry, HATO = Highways Agency Traffic Officer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_England_Traffic_Officer_Service

Basically they do the parts of a traffic police officer's job that doesn't require police powers and can be paid less than police officers.

 

[TheEdge]

People fail these drugs tests quite regularly. It always turns out to be some prescription of over the counter thing they've taken, sometimes a long time ago. I've never known anyone to fail for illegal drugs.

I asked the chap who gave me a random test once and he said in all his time he'd had one actual fail. False positives and entirely innocent positives are another matter. Like others have said though it is not good that its managed to get out.

 

[GusB]

Basically they do the parts of a traffic police officer's job that doesn't require police powers and can be paid less than police officers.

Ah - something that we're not ever likely to encounter in Scotland, then?

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[GusB]

Whether the result of any test was positive or not, surely this press leak is a breach of GDPR. Would the driver concerned have any backup from ASLEF/RMT/whateverunion if they decided to sue?

 

[DarloRich]

Whether the result of any test was positive or not, surely this press leak is a breach of GDPR. Would the driver concerned have any backup from ASLEF/RMT/whateverunion if they decided to sue?

I doubt the information has come from the employer. I suspect Chinese whispers at play and a bit of he said she said.

 

[JohnR]

I doubt the information has come from the employer. I suspect Chinese whispers at play and a bit of he said she said.

If that was the case, then surely ScotRail should have said so emphatically? I doubt its chinese whispers - someone who had this information has leaked it to the press.

 

[najaB]

If that was the case, then surely ScotRail should have said so emphatically?

But they've said as much as they can say if it really is a potential false positive - they can't say that he didn't fail because that would be lying. So they've declined to comment one way or the other on the test result and focused on the fact that they have no reason to believe that it's the driver's fault.

 

[DarloRich]

If that was the case, then surely ScotRail should have said so emphatically? I doubt its chinese whispers - someone who had this information has leaked it to the press.

They have refused to entertain the suggestion by not commenting. That is exactly correct and to be expected at this stage.

To do more may prejudice an on going enquiry and impact on the ability of the accused to defend themselves

 

[JohnR]

But they've said as much as they can say if it really is a potential false positive - they can't say that he didn't fail because that would be lying. So they've declined to comment one way or the other on the test result and focused on the fact that they have no reason to believe that it's the driver's fault.

They have refused to entertain the suggestion by not commenting. That is exactly correct and to be expected at this stage.

To do more may prejudice an on going enquiry and impact on the ability of the accused to defend themselves

But why didnt they issue a statement saying "It would be inappropriate to comment at this time as the investigation is still ongoing"??

 

[najaB]

But why didnt they issue a statement saying "It would be inappropriate to comment at this time as the investigation is still ongoing"??

It seems that is exactly what they have done:

ScotRail declined to comment. A spokesperson said: “While investigations are still ongoing, there is nothing to suggest the derailment was caused by the actions of the driver or a fault with the train.”