Scotrail class 170 derailment - Stonehaven

[Edders23]

Because safety is now a consideration.

Safety can be accommodated without increasing the timescale of dealing with an incident. For instance a bad motorway crash can be cleared up in half a day including investigations removing damaged vehicles and cargo

This was a simple derailment no injuries or fatalities so surely an inspection of the track to assess damage bring in the breakdown crane or jacks depending whats needed remove the derailed train and get the track repaired safety is about following correct procedures surely not making it take a long time ?

As for the report in the paper well this should not have been allowed as it prejudices any enquiry into the matter whoever leaked that should face severe disciplinary action

 

[edwin_m]

what a silly post. @Highlandspring has given you a much better response than your post deserved.

Thank you for your constructive contribution to the debate.

In the steam era pretty much every depot maintained some sort of breakdown train and they were frequently used. Derailments were much more frequent although usually minor in nature. It was mentioned that the team had to come all the way from Millerhill - in the past there would have been three or four closer depots with facilities and staff experienced in re-railing. I imagine the DBC support mentioned above comprises a handful of suitably-equipped team spread across the network.

So I stand by my previous post that derailments are now so rare that few people have much experience of dealing with them. For the avoidance of doubt I'm not saying that there should be more such teams - they would probably be a waste of money and perhaps actively dangerous due to not getting enough experience.

 

[najaB]

This was a simple derailment no injuries or fatalities so surely an inspection of the track to assess damage bring in the breakdown crane or jacks depending whats needed remove the derailed train and get the track repaired safety is about following correct procedures surely not making it take a long time ?

Apparently there was significant damage to the S&C on a manual box so no replacement parts would be immediately available.

 

[Crossover]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ugs-test-following-train-derailment-1-4819586


Oh dear - surprised at the way this is being reported, given it’s being challenged & it’s unclear if it’s a prescription substance or something else

It is rather poor that this is being touted by the media. I am aware of a failure on a random drugs test which I believe later showed to be caused by some seeds (poppy or sesame I believe) that had been in some food and the person concerned exonerated.

 

[najaB]

It is rather poor that this is being touted by the media. I am aware of a failure on a random drugs test which I believe later showed to be caused by some seeds (poppy or sesame I believe) that had been in some food and the person concerned exonerated.

Poppy. They contain traces of opiates.

 

[vlad]

Ah - something that we're not ever likely to encounter in Scotland, then?

Thanks for the explanation.

They're now called Highways England Traffic Officers, so you're right you won't see them in Scotland.

 

[JohnR]

The Driver resigned from ScotRail in 2010 after failing a previous drugs test. He then got a job with fGW, then transferred back.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotrail-train-driver-tested-positive-for-drugs-twice-1-4821106

 

[DuncanS]

Mmmm, plenty of people seemingly wanting to throw the dirver to the wolves - I wonder why?

 

[westcoaster]

The Driver resigned from ScotRail in 2010 after failing a previous drugs test. He then got a job with fGW, then transferred back.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotrail-train-driver-tested-positive-for-drugs-twice-1-4821106

I wonder how he managed that, you would guess his personal file would transfer over from one to to another.
Could a slight variation in name or surname help cover these things over.

 

[Esker-pades]

This seems to be the most important part of the article:

No passengers were aboard the train and it was travelling at less than the speed limit, and did not pass a red signal.

IF the driver did fail the drugs test because of an illegal substance (and not a false positive) then that's their own stupid fault, but there is no evidence that the driver contributed to the derailment.

 

[JohnR]

I wonder how he managed that, you would guess his personal file would transfer over from one to to another.
Could a slight variation in name or surname help cover these things over.

The story in the Courier says that the drivers father is also employed by ScotRail as a mid-level manager in Aberdeen.

 

[Macwomble]

The story in the Courier says that the drivers father is also employed by ScotRail as a mid-level manager in Aberdeen.

I can see the **** really hitting the fan with this one if there's even a hint his father has something to do with him being hired.

 

[JohnR]

I can see the **** really hitting the fan with this one if there's even a hint his father has something to do with him being hired.

There should certainly be no question of people not knowing his history when hiring him.

 

[mpthomson]

There should certainly be no question of people not knowing his history when hiring him.

Entirely the opposite, the interview panel should NOT know that his father is a manager in the business. Job offers should be based on merit on interview and any other testing and that's it. Whose child he was is irrelevant to the process. Knowing that the applicant is someone's son would introduce unconscious bias into the process, making it unfair as assumptions might be made.

 

[RLBH]

Entirely the opposite, the interview panel should NOT know that his father is a manager in the business. Job offers should be based on merit on interview and any other testing and that's it. Whose child he was is irrelevant to the process. Knowing that the applicant is someone's son would introduce unconscious bias into the process, making it unfair as assumptions might be made.

Clearly it is unethical for a relative of a job applicant to intervene on their behalf. I think that there is a question here, though - if an employee of a company knows that an applicant's background would disqualify them, and the applicant has not disclosed this, what is the ethical course of action for the employee? Or indeed for the company?

 

[Meole]

Resignation is not dismissal, is there any suggestion of disciplinary action ? A dismissal or previous unresolved disciplinary action would preclude re-employment, if the failure did not warrant action perhaps there was an acceptable explanation.

 

[6Z09]

Is the point here not that nobody should be able to "by pass" the safety checks.
A failed D&A should flag up from previous posts or else we would all be doing it!!

 

[mde]

Is the point here not that nobody should be able to "by pass" the safety checks.
A failed D&A should flag up from previous posts or else we would all be doing it!!

The thing is, does anyone have proof of wrong doing, or, is it simply another story eith dubious accuracy from Al Dalton at The Scotsman?

 

[6Z09]

No doubt the full story will emerge eventually.
On a general point, it would be very hard to "lose" any previous D&A results with the Sentinel PTS system.
I seem to recall any failure results in being banned for a period of years.
TOCs and FOCs do not use it though so I am not sure how their systems work

 

[Highlandspring]

The thing is, does anyone have proof of wrong doing, or, is it simply another story with dubious accuracy from Al Dalton at The Scotsman?

Even if someone here did know anything about the specific details of this it would be career suicide to post on here about it.

No doubt the full story will emerge eventually.

I doubt that very much, nor should it.

 

[mde]

Even if someone here did know anything about the specific details of this it would be career suicide to post on here about it

absolutely, but, alas, it doesn’t stop speculation- or in Al Dalton’s parlance ‘journalism’.

It could very well be the case that something fishy is at play, but, it seems highly doubtful.

 

[Elecman]

No doubt the full story will emerge eventually.
On a general point, it would be very hard to "lose" any previous D&A results with the Sentinel PTS system.
I seem to recall any failure results in being banned for a period of years.
TOCs and FOCs do not use it though so I am not sure how their systems work

Except Sentinel doesn’t apply to traincrew

 

[JohnR]

The thing is, does anyone have proof of wrong doing, or, is it simply another story eith dubious accuracy from Al Dalton at The Scotsman?

Also being reported elsewhere.

 

[tiptoptaff]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

RAIB report released, basically saying no fault found with the unit or infrastructure and that no further investigation is to be carried out

(first time I've inserted a link, hope I've done it correctly!)

 

[theironroad]

The report also says that

"The RAIB’s preliminary examination has eliminated the condition of the train itself, the way it was being driven, and the condition of the track and signalling infrastructure as possible factors in the cause of the accident."

So despite the failed drugs test, the driver was not responsible for the derailment.

 

[matchmaker]

The report also says that

"The RAIB’s preliminary examination has eliminated the condition of the train itself, the way it was being driven, and the condition of the track and signalling infrastructure as possible factors in the cause of the accident."

So despite the failed drugs test, the driver was not responsible for the derailment.

Another Dunblane, by the sound of it.

 

[Crossover]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

RAIB report released, basically saying no fault found with the unit or infrastructure and that no further investigation is to be carried out

(first time I've inserted a link, hope I've done it correctly!)

The report also says that

"The RAIB’s preliminary examination has eliminated the condition of the train itself, the way it was being driven, and the condition of the track and signalling infrastructure as possible factors in the cause of the accident."

So despite the failed drugs test, the driver was not responsible for the derailment.

Please pardon my possible ignorance here, but reading between the lines of what the RAIB have written, could this put the cause down to the operation of the signal box (i.e. signal set back to danger and points moved under the train whilst the train was still traversing the points)?

 

[theironroad]

Please pardon my possible ignorance here, but reading between the lines of what the RAIB have written, could this put the cause down to the operation of the signal box (i.e. signal set back to danger and points moved under the train whilst the train was still traversing the points)?

Its certainly crossed my mind, but guess we'll never know as the raib don't intend pursuing it.

 

[greyman42]

Please pardon my possible ignorance here, but reading between the lines of what the RAIB have written, could this put the cause down to the operation of the signal box (i.e. signal set back to danger and points moved under the train whilst the train was still traversing the points)?

That sounds like what happened. If it turns out to be the case I presume it will be dealt with internally.

 

[route:oxford]

Another Dunblane, by the sound of it.

Rail incident in Dunblane?

Or relating to a certain Glaswegian whose lawyers threatened Central Regional Council if their schools didn't promote his groups?