Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 27 Jan 2016.

  1. NotATrainspott

    NotATrainspott Established Member

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    Since the first class section on the 385s is at one end, it'd be best if first class were at the extreme ends of an 8 car set. Then there'd be no justification for standard class passengers to walk through first class.
     
  2. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    But I can't imagine the First clientele walking along the way to the front if the rear section was busy. I was wondering if the First should be in one block in the middle.
     
  3. gsnedders

    gsnedders Established Member

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    At least ex-Queen Street, it's often the front First section that's busiest AFAICT, as that's the front upon arrival at Waverley; might as well walk the length before the train departs, rather than after it arrives.
     
  4. Mingulay

    Mingulay Member

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    Inaugural 385 service Dunblane to Edinburgh 07.54. Very comfortable. But already fed up with deluge of announcements. Rabbit rabbit rabbit !

    Sadly just 3 carriages where I understood should be 4 so it’s going to be standing room only by stirling! Also stuck behind an overcrowded Glasgow service due to earlier cancellation so running late already

    So not the best start for 385. Hope over the weeks to come we get more capacity in what is a comfy train.
     
  5. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    I was reflecting on the 385 experience on my way home last night. I've been using them almost daily since their introduction, and I was, in fact, on the very first public run, so I've used them quite a lot now.

    It took me a long time to like them, but I think I'm a convert now. Given the nature of the E&G, I think ScotRail have specified the train pretty well, and Hitachi have done a decent job, if you're willing to be charitable about the delivery delays and the windscreen problem.

    I know the seats are controversial, but they're actually a very decent shape, certainly better than a lot of other seats out there. You need to sit very upright to get a comfortable position, but when you do, the seat gives very good support. There's a decent mix of airline and table seating, every seat has access to power, the interiors are bright and spacious, and some of the design touches are very nice, like the moquette on the priority seats. The ride quality is very good.

    Negatives are that the units are quite noisy if you're sat over a motor bogie, there's a lot of poor window/seat alignment, and the automated announcements are seriously over the top. Also, I think there will be a significant over-provision of First Class once the eight-car sets start operating.

    All in all, though, I think they're good. The best aspect of their introduction is that the E&G is now performing better than it has in a very long time. Cancellations are far less common, there's almost no short-forms, and they go like the proverbial off a shovel, so they can make up delays very effectively. As a regular E&G commuter, that'll do me just fine.
     
  6. HankyuDentetsu

    HankyuDentetsu Member

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    The journey from Linlithgow to Edinburgh Waverley at peak is closer to 25 minutes. Sometimes there are people standing before Linlithgow, always people standing once it leaves.

    I got the 20 seats figure from a post made by Journeyman: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-class-385-discussion.126141/page-132#post-3914052
     
  7. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Apologies, I think I miscalculated. Effectively the extra vehicle is, of course, a trailer, and not a driving vehicle, so although a chunk of the extra seating is first class, there is still a significant amount of extra seating. So yes, looking at it again, 67 extra seats - 47 standard, 20 first.

    Better than I thought, but I do still think there'll be over-provision of first class seating. ScotRail seem quite keen to fill it with the £6 upgrade still knocking about, but I'm not sure they're succeeding.
     
    Last edited: 12 Mar 2019
  8. scotraildriver

    scotraildriver Established Member

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    There are 47 standard seats in the composite vehicle.
     
  9. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Sorry, just me being dense there. :)
     
  10. gordonjahn

    gordonjahn Member

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    There's an early plan here: https://chicgibson.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/img_1079.png

    You can conclude the extra coach is all more nuanced than just how many extra seats in the coach! This drawing shows the composite is 35 "full" seats plus 11 tip up, but something's changed if it's become 47 total (so let's say 20 first, 15 standard and 12 tip up). Since you've added this coach (with a cab and toilet) to a 3-coach, the next coach wouldn't need a cab or a toilet and gains extra seats.

    From Wikipedia:
    385/0 = 206 seats
    385/1 = 273 seats (20 first class, 253 standard)

    A 3 coach (385/0) starts out with 206 standard seats (as above), you add a coach containing another 11 standard class, and then gain another 24 in the space where the toilet (16) and cab (8) were taking you to 241. There's then 12 tip-up to add which gets you to the advertised 253 (again, as above) standard seats.
     
  11. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    The big plus for me is capacity , i often walk to the front of the first set . Croy at peak , a lot will get on there at the front .

    The airline seating has the poor window alignement and seems more tables.
     
  12. Mingulay

    Mingulay Member

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    Sadly but predictably as it’s Abellio the 385 introduction on the Dunblane service has backfired and delivered more misery for us long suffering passengers

    Both commuter services to Edinburgh cancelled. Now an hour late. Seemsplenty cancellstions all day! Reason given no staff to operate the 385 !

    Looks like the rush to get rid of the 365 made without any thought for passengers. So shorter trains. More cancelled trains more angry passengers.

    Two people at Dunblane today. Both started new jobs both anxious about daily delays One guy from South Africa. Second week back in Scotland and he is taking photos of the screen to justify his late arrival in new job. Now asking me if living in This area is viable !

    This is not just inconvenience. This is a constant failure to deliver a reliable public transport for our economy .

    Once again Abellio make passengers last in the management decisions . Note to management. Don’t introduce trains that you don’t have drivers for. Simples!
     
  13. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    I did notice today at Waverley that the 11.33 via Cumbernauld was cancelled due to lack of crew. And that the Dunblane train was a 170. And that the following Cumbernauld train had just 20 passengers (although there may have been more at Haymarket)
     
  14. Mingulay

    Mingulay Member

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    it seems Scotrail are cancelling about 50% of all Stirling, B of A and Dunblane services today , sometimes consecutive services thus compounding the misery and delay for customers . Looks like a miserable end following miserable start to the commuting day! Nice one Abellio. Once again showing your total inability to manage any change, any transition, and right size your staff to your train fleet. All your failures render you Scotland's worst ever Franchise
     
  15. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    20 passengers during the day on the Cumbernaulds is actually quite impressive.
     
  16. David M

    David M Member

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    Given the frequency with which journeys on this route are being cancelled, it's impressive that anyone has made the effort tbh.
     
  17. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    Presumably these were passengers from Polmont and Linlithgow or Grahamston.
     
  18. youngac

    youngac Member

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    Loco for tonight's delivery has arrived at the yard.
     
  19. snookertam

    snookertam Member

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    Just did a realtimetrains line up for Dunblane for today. That's pretty scandalous.

    1P06 SR Edinburgh 0629 0629
    WTT 0657 0657 Perth 1 1P08 SR Edinburgh 0658 0658
    WTT Starts here - 1P12 SR Edinburgh 0754 Cancel
    WTT Starts here - 1P14 SR Edinburgh 0828 Cancel
    WTT Starts here 1 1P16 SR Edinburgh 0858 0858
    WTT Starts here 1 1P18 SR Edinburgh 0928 0928
    WTT Starts here 1 1P20 SR Edinburgh 0958 0958
    WTT pass Inverness 1 1E13 GR London Kings Cross 1023½ 1025
    WTT Starts here - 1P22 SR Edinburgh 1028 Cancel
    WTT Starts here - 1P24 SR Edinburgh 1100 Cancel
    WTT Starts here - 1P26 SR Edinburgh 1128 Cancel
    WTT Starts here 1 1P28 SR Stirling 1158 1158
    WTT Starts here 1 1P30 SR Edinburgh 1228 1228
    WTT Starts here 1 1P32 SR Edinburgh 1258 1258
    VAR Starts here - 1P34 SR Edinburgh 1328 Cancel
    WTT Starts here - 1P36 SR Edinburgh 1358 Cancel
    VAR Starts here - 1P38 SR Edinburgh 1428 Cancel
    WTT Starts here - 1P40 SR Edinburgh 1458 Cancel
    WTT Starts here 1 1P42 SR Edinburgh 1528 1528
    WTT Starts here 1 1P44 SR Edinburgh 1558 1558
    WTT Starts here - 1P46 SR Edinburgh 1628 Cancel
    WTT Starts here - 1P48 SR Edinburgh 1657 Cancel
    WTT Starts here 1 1P02 SR Edinburgh 1715 1715
    WTT pass London Kings Cross 2 1S16 GR Inverness 1729½ 1731
    WTT Starts here 1 1P04 SR Edinburgh 1748 1748
     
  20. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    It's a network. Disruption (a failure at Haymarket) spreads.
     
  21. mcmad

    mcmad Member

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    Your role as chief Abellio apologist is safe InOban. You didn't notice that most of those cancellations were long before the HST sat down tonight?
     
  22. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    I thought that there had been an earlier failure? I am not an apologist for a failure to ensure that the drivers rostered for a service are passed on the rostered train.
     
  23. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    And BTW tonight's delivery has set off. It's down as 600 tonnes rather than 400. Does this mean anything?
     
  24. mcmad

    mcmad Member

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    I see on twitter that Scotrail are already advising of extensive cancellations tomorrow. Over 30 on the app already, mainly fife circle, borders and the new E&G via grahamston service.

    All down to traincrew shortage due to training requirements again. What new stock is it that Fife is getting to cause these cancellations....
     
  25. Mingulay

    Mingulay Member

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    On a 4 car 385 to Dunblane tonight. Disabled toilet door rolling back and forth. Out of action neither shuts nor opens or locks. Hitachi take note. Sort this set think it’s 114. Guard unaware and unconcerned. Never left rear cab from start to finish ! No tickets checked. Not your typical contrail guard. Perhaps he is as fed up as the fare paying passenger!
     
  26. Colin M

    Colin M Member

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    DELETE
     
    Last edited: 13 Mar 2019
  27. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    Mingulay take note. Hitachi don’t read your ramblings on this forum.
     
  28. Mingulay

    Mingulay Member

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    I suspect your right. But perhaps the passengers voice will resonate somewhere. But I’m sure you would recognise mass cancellations with the premature introduction of this train with insufficient drivers is worthy of comment ? Given the overwhelming passenger sentiment I witness today I’m wholly comfortable my ramblings are a measured and filtered expression of passenger frustration. I suggest you get out on the trains more ! Your clearly a tad our of touch
     
  29. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    You weren’t commenting on “mass cancellations with the premature introduction of this train with insufficient drivers” though, you were moaning about a faulty toilet door.
     
  30. mde

    mde Member

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    Send it to @scotrail on twitter, or, use the 'Snapp It' app. Of course, it doesn't get the fault rectified immediately, but, it does ensure your voice is heard.
     

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