Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

deltic08

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Had my first ride on a 385 yesterday (Wednesday) from Linlithgow to Queen St and return. I had very little time available so caught the same units 111/120 straight back after a quick look at the new extension.
Very impressed with everything except exterior front shape which is rather ugly. Why did they choose that shape of window and why is it so high to climb into the carriage?
Internally was clean, bright and the seats where more comfortable than I have been lead to believe on here. Ride quite adequate at full speed. What is the problem?
The acceleration is exhilarating. We travelled 5 miles from Linlithgow to Polmont in 5 minutes 41 seconds.
The weather was dull, very cold and very gusty yet still attained full speed and was cosy inside except for a cold blast when the doors were open.
If you are unhappy with these units in Scotland, then send them south to Northern territory.
 
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R

RailUK Forums

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That's a full week now with no announcements. The display isn't active either - only tells the time and the car number, no info about next stop or final destination.
 

scosutsut

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It's been manual announcements for a while in the North Berwicks too. I thought the automated "too long for some station platform" chat was annoying. It's worse when it's a guard saying it, especially if they forget the speel half way through! I know it's selective door opening but could we have selective announcements too please? If I'm not in the rear coach it's irrelevant!
 
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Maybe they aren’t using the announcements as there might be issues with the PIS. The exterior screens seem to have an issue with displaying the destination, then it disappearing again.
 

snookertam

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That's a full week now with no announcements. The display isn't active either - only tells the time and the car number, no info about next stop or final destination.
A unit I was on on Thursday morning did have announcements, although that evening the return did not. I wonder if there's a software update being rolled out that hasn't went to plan.
 
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Maybe they aren’t using the announcements as there might be issues with the PIS. The exterior screens seem to have an issue with displaying the destination, then it disappearing again.
The PIS is controlled by the driver and the the exterior display on th 385 usually turns off when leaving the station not sure why though, might be to conserve power.
 

PYROOGOBBO

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where will the 10 extra 385's go? will they be propping up extra services? or for new lines?

also i was on a 385 and i had the announcements going off :'D handy for a paranoid lass who's wondering if they got on the wrong train at a late night edinburgh.
 
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where will the 10 extra 385's go? will they be propping up extra services? or for new lines?

also i was on a 385 and i had the announcements going off :'D handy for a paranoid lass who's wondering if they got on the wrong train at a late night edinburgh.
First of i don't think ScotRail will be getting the 10 extra 385s as the Abellio ScotRail franchise is not getting extended to 10 years.
 

hexagon789

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where will the 10 extra 385's go? will they be propping up extra services? or for new lines?

also i was on a 385 and i had the announcements going off :'D handy for a paranoid lass who's wondering if they got on the wrong train at a late night edinburgh.
If they did get another ten, and with the franchise not being extended its a big 'if', my bet would be Inverclyde then the 318/320s could go to make more of the Argyle/North Clyde six-cars again.
 
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If they did get another ten, and with the franchise not being extended its a big 'if', my bet would be Inverclyde then the 318/320s could go to make more of the Argyle/North Clyde six-cars again.
Argyle really needs the 6 car a bit more. The Larkhall services are always very busy during the day. Same with Whifflet.
 

youngac

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There has been a 385 on the Newton via Queens Park diagrams for the last 2 days. These diagrams were carried out by a 380 before.
 

Clansman

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First of i don't think ScotRail will be getting the 10 extra 385s as the Abellio ScotRail franchise is not getting extended to 10 years.
The services to Berwick Upon Tweed seem to have quietly dissapeared from the official ScotRail website so it's not as if the lack of 10 extra units wont do much harm other than during the peaks when theres still 3 car services booked to run to Stirling.
 

Speed43125

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The services to Berwick Upon Tweed seem to have quietly dissapeared from the official ScotRail website so it's not as if the lack of 10 extra units wont do much harm other than during the peaks when there's still 3 car services booked to run to Stirling.
I have to say, given since the reduced schedule, just about every train up this way has been 6 car 385s, You are quite right. These trains need to all be strengthened, and when there is a UK assembly site running out of work, with a great product available, the right thing to do is order more of them.
 

92002

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The services to Berwick Upon Tweed seem to have quietly dissapeared from the official ScotRail website so it's not as if the lack of 10 extra units wont do much harm other than during the peaks when theres still 3 car services booked to run to Stirling.
The additional 10 trains were on the option of a franchise extention and the electrification of East Kilbride lines. The contract is not being extended, neither has the electrification been approved.

Any trains to Berwick needs more stations to be built to make the sums add up. They would be extensions od Dunbar services.
 

gingertom

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The additional 10 trains were on the option of a franchise extention and the electrification of East Kilbride lines. The contract is not being extended, neither has the electrification been approved.

Any trains to Berwick needs more stations to be built to make the sums add up. They would be extensions od Dunbar services.
not only that, as the Edinburgh-Berwick line is >100mph so 385s would not make the best use of the paths available. Perhaps some 350s or 397s would be more appropriate for that service?
 

Altnabreac

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The services to Berwick Upon Tweed seem to have quietly dissapeared from the official ScotRail website so it's not as if the lack of 10 extra units wont do much harm other than during the peaks when theres still 3 car services booked to run to Stirling.
The Berwick service was a priced option in the Franchise Agreement to allow the new station at Reston to be served. As Reston station isn’t open yet, the option hasn’t been exercised.

Looks likely now that the franchise will be over before Reston station reopens. Given the station is going through the planning permission stage at the moment an estimate of Dec 2022 would be reasonable for the station reopening.
 

Clansman

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The Berwick service was a priced option in the Franchise Agreement to allow the new station at Reston to be served. As Reston station isn’t open yet, the option hasn’t been exercised.

Looks likely now that the franchise will be over before Reston station reopens. Given the station is going through the planning permission stage at the moment an estimate of Dec 2022 would be reasonable for the station reopening.
Ah that explains it.

I assumed Berwick was a done deal for when Reston opens, and would allow more IC services to bypass Dunbar during these hours. To which the extension of Abellio's contract to trigger the 10 x 385s would have complimented this, rather than having to draft units in from other services.

The additional 10 trains were on the option of a franchise extention and the electrification of East Kilbride lines. The contract is not being extended, neither has the electrification been approved.

Any trains to Berwick needs more stations to be built to make the sums add up. They would be extensions od Dunbar services.
I was aware of that.

Though I doubt the additional option for 10 x 385s upon franchise extension would have been in direct corrolation with East Kilbride as if to say that was where such an order of units would be headed.
 

XC90

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Plans for electrification of East Kilbride are well advanced. Double track for the whole route and 2 platforms at EKL and Hairmyers. The 385's will be ordered to provide the capacity. As for Berwick, I believe TPE will begin stopping there from Dec 2020.
 

380101

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Plans for electrification of East Kilbride are well advanced. Double track for the whole route and 2 platforms at EKL and Hairmyers. The 385's will be ordered to provide the capacity. As for Berwick, I believe TPE will begin stopping there from Dec 2020.
You got a source for more 385's being ordered? Don't really see it happening given the ongoing issues drivers are having with them and the current ASLEF stance in Scotland on any further trains with front end gangways being introduced ie; they'll not be accepted by ASLEF. Its time cabs on trains were designed for drivers and not for passengers, as has been the case with the last 2 newly introduced EMUs classes in ScotRail.
 

XC90

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My source is someone involved in the EKL project. As for the 385s, the original design had no front corridors but the new rolling stock is essential for EKL electrification. I agree the front gangways are unnecessary and are restrictive. Having 385s without them would still allow them to attach to the current 385s, perhaps not ideal for E & G routes though.
When the 380s were ordered it was said only 1 influential person at Transport Scotland insisted on the gangways.
 

duffers2324

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I know that in Glasgow in particular we had pretty much always had gangwayed stock for eg 318's pre refurb, 314's, 156's, 158,s etc but it has been shown that having a gangway is not a necessity as much as it once was for eg 334's the 303's, and refurb 318's its shown that we can deal with non gangwayed stock nowadays so personally to me I do but I also don't get why the seeming pressure that it has to be gangwayed stock, yes admittedly it makes going through the train easier particularly for TE's and/or passengers or catering etc but it comes at the expense of cab space etc for drivers, people are capable of making their own minds up in which part of the train they want to be in and if this is in non gangwayed stock then should know to stand at the right part of the platform, whether they wish to be in the front or rear unit

So that is my pros and cons on it I can understand why they would want it but the question is do we really need it?
 

JumpinTrainz

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I know that in Glasgow in particular we had pretty much always had gangwayed stock for eg 318's pre refurb, 314's, 156's, 158,s etc but it has been shown that having a gangway is not a necessity as much as it once was for eg 334's the 303's, and refurb 318's its shown that we can deal with non gangwayed stock nowadays so personally to me I do but I also don't get why the seeming pressure that it has to be gangwayed stock, yes admittedly it makes going through the train easier particularly for TE's and/or passengers or catering etc but it comes at the expense of cab space etc for drivers, people are capable of making their own minds up in which part of the train they want to be in and if this is in non gangwayed stock then should know to stand at the right part of the platform, whether they wish to be in the front or rear unit

So that is my pros and cons on it I can understand why they would want it but the question is do we really need it?
The 314s never had gangways.

But I do agree with you. I don’t think it makes a huge difference to passengers. At the end of the day they’ll sit where they can and if not they’ll stand. I don’t imagine many people walk from one train straight through to another (walking through a 7 sometimes 8 car train). My local trains were 334s, 318s and 320s for years on the North Clyde line and there were never any issues.

They probably work better on busy routes like throughout Ayrshire and also the E-G for when trains get really busy. Then I see the reasoning. But I can’t see the EK line getting anything more than a 3 car train so I don’t think 385s would be the ideal candidates. Perhaps if more are ordered it’ll be to strengthen other services and allow more 318s and 320s to do the route.
 

norbitonflyer

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I know that in Glasgow in particular we had pretty much always had gangwayed stock for eg 318's pre refurb, 314's,...…………..
The "Blue Trains" (classes 303, 311) never had them and nor did the 314s or 320s, or any 1st generation dmus except the 126s (and even they were only gangwayed at one end and, like the 318s, lost them during their service careers). Given the problems with the bespoke windscreen design for the 385s dictated by their gangways, I can't see much enthusiasm is likely for such an embellishment on future orders.
 

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