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Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

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Clansman

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It weird seeing Queen St with wire s, to me Queen St is not a station you linger .Central is much more interesting . Guesswork for first 385 in pax service or 380s in first

Queen Street's got that rough edge to it, probably because it's in an extremly tatty state due to being between a rock and a hard place with the two major refurbishments going on over the course of the two years previous and two years ahead. Having said that though, it is Glasgow at the end of the day ;)
 
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route101

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they're certainly going to be running on routes that 314s currently serve as the 385/0s are replacing the 314s on the Southside. 314s don't run to Lanark, only 318s and 320s from Glasgow Central. No idea if 334s make it that far as I don't work that route or sign 334/318/314/320
Not seen a 334 out of high level on a long time , may of seen one on a Lanark service !
 

Clansman

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Not seen a 334 out of high level on a long time , may of seen one on a Lanark service !
Same. They used to often crop up on the Cathcart Circle from time to time for the Mount Florida specials for those bound for Hampden, but they've kept quiet this year round anyway.
 

170401

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Does anyone know where, apart from the E&G, the 4 car sets will be used?
Even at maximum peak provision 24 units seems extremely excessive.
Have they really just erred on the side of caution ensuring enough availability or will there be 4 car diagrams elsewhere? Dunblane? Shotts maybe?
 

route101

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Does anyone know where, apart from the E&G, the 4 car sets will be used?
Even at maximum peak provision 24 units seems extremely excessive.
Have they really just erred on the side of caution ensuring enough availability or will there be 4 car diagrams elsewhere? Dunblane? Shotts maybe?

Not Edinburgh to Dunblane and Glasgow to Stirling? . Also Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk Grahamston
 

Clansman

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Does anyone know where, apart from the E&G, the 4 car sets will be used?
Even at maximum peak provision 24 units seems extremely excessive.
Have they really just erred on the side of caution ensuring enough availability or will there be 4 car diagrams elsewhere? Dunblane? Shotts maybe?
Berwick Upon Tweed services I'd imagine.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if ScotRail utilised the oppertunity to give the likes of Stirling/Alloa/Dunblane and Shotts peak time First Class provision.
 

170401

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Not Edinburgh to Dunblane and Glasgow to Stirling? . Also Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk Grahamston

Maybe, was just wondering if their was anything planned for the surplus 4 car units. They would need to be diagramed as adhocing a 3 car for a 4 car may cause issues (as per 320/321 3 car/4 car connundrum).

With a maximum 16 units required for the E&G and throw in a few maintenance spares you are still left with 5 or 6 sets. Enough to make the speeded up Edinburgh - Dunblanes all 4 car maybe?
 

380101

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It weird seeing Queen St with wire s, to me Queen St is not a station you linger .Central is much more interesting . Guesswork for first 385 in pax service or 380s in first

It'll be a 385 I imagine. There's been enough bad press surrounding the E-G and it's constantly moving completion date. Running a 380 service with no 1st class provision for the first EMU diagram in December would be excellent fodder for the likes of Alistair Dalton of the Scotsman to again fire into Scotrail over it's growing list of failures.
 

jopsuk

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Berwick Upon Tweed services I'd imagine.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if ScotRail utilised the oppertunity to give the likes of Stirling/Alloa/Dunblane and Shotts peak time First Class provision.

I'd be surprised, they often use 170s with 1st declassified on Stirling locals. The entire set up is for only the Edinburgh-Glasgow express via Falkirk High and the Edinburgh/Glasgow to Inverness/Aberdeen intercity (future HST operations) to have 1st class- that's the current situation, and that's the future plans.

As I understand it, there's enough 3-car 385s to ensure that all the peak time Stirling/Dunblane/Alloa services can be 6-car, for much needed capacity
 

Clansman

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I'd be surprised, they often use 170s with 1st declassified on Stirling locals. The entire set up is for only the Edinburgh-Glasgow express via Falkirk High and the Edinburgh/Glasgow to Inverness/Aberdeen intercity (future HST operations) to have 1st class- that's the current situation, and that's the future plans.

As I understand it, there's enough 3-car 385s to ensure that all the peak time Stirling/Dunblane/Alloa services can be 6-car, for much needed capacity
Although the current set up, as you said, is not to provide advertised first class from Dunblane/Alloa/Stirling, there is still the oppertunity there never the less if 4 car units end up venturing North of Falkirk on a regular basis post 8-car E2G.
 

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380101

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It certainly did! At last. An ongoing issue though is that the curved windcreen is causing drivers to see double signal aspects when they are single. Double green and double red is ok but seeing 2 yellows when it's single is a serious problem.

Have heard today that they are having to modify the front ends to fit different windscreens that are less curved to alleviate the signal sighting issue caused by the curved screen.

Also heard that one of the sets had a complete battery pack fall off from the underside of the unit whilst in motion on the North Berwick line. I think in the short term at least, Scotrail will be regretting choosing the Hitatchi AT200 range. I can't be that good an offering seeing as no other TOC has ordered any AT200 variant. Abellio have won 2 franchises recently and went for CAF, Stadler and Bombardier offerings. Maybe they've seen things in the Scotrail Hitatchi option that don't look promising?
 

MCR247

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Also heard that one of the sets had a complete battery pack fall off from the underside of the unit whilst in motion on the North Berwick line. I think in the short term at least, Scotrail will be regretting choosing the Hitatchi AT200 range. I can't be that good an offering seeing as no other TOC has ordered any AT200 variant. Abellio have won 2 franchises recently and went for CAF, Stadler and Bombardier offerings. Maybe they've seen things in the Scotrail Hitatchi option that don't look promising?

In fairness you have to take delivery timescales into consideration as that plays a big part in the decision making. Maybe Hitachi couldnt offer AT200s as quick as others could offer theirs?
 

380101

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In fairness you have to take delivery timescales into consideration as that plays a big part in the decision making. Maybe Hitachi couldnt offer AT200s as quick as others could offer theirs?

That is possible, but they can't seem to be able to fulfil their 385 delivery schedule (24 to be delivered and tested for the December 2017 timetable change) at the moment. Hence the recently announced further delay to their introduction on the E-G.

I appreciate that Network Rail delays to electrification have held up 385 testing on the E-G, but once one runs it both ways with no issues then there is no excuse for any further Hitatchi delays.
 

Domh245

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Have heard today that they are having to modify the front ends to fit different windscreens that are less curved to alleviate the signal sighting issue caused by the curved screen.

Also heard that one of the sets had a complete battery pack fall off from the underside of the unit whilst in motion on the North Berwick line. I think in the short term at least, Scotrail will be regretting choosing the Hitatchi AT200 range. I can't be that good an offering seeing as no other TOC has ordered any AT200 variant. Abellio have won 2 franchises recently and went for CAF, Stadler and Bombardier offerings. Maybe they've seen things in the Scotrail Hitatchi option that don't look promising?

I can't see how they would modify the front end to reduce the curvature as that is built into the unit. It'll be interesting to see what that ends up being

tn_gb-scotrail-hitachi-class385-kasado-201601.jpg


As for the other franchises, Stadler and CAF have been selected as they are the only DMUs available on the market at the moment. As far as I'm aware, the AT200 isn't offered as such. Then there is the issue of timescales, Hitachi have got a fairly full order book at both Newton Aycliffe and Pistoia. There will also be plenty of other factors at play as well, such as cost, the "British Built" factor, as well as track record. The AT200 is still something of an unknown whilst the Aventra has heritage in the Electrostar.
 

Bletchleyite

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It would probably be possible to produce a differently shaped windscreen that was flat in the bit the driver was looking out of (if not directly angled forwards). Or to add an anti-glare/anti-reflection coating as is not uncommon on spectacles these days.

I'm sure a fix will be found.
 

delt1c

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Have heard today that they are having to modify the front ends to fit different windscreens that are less curved to alleviate the signal sighting issue caused by the curved screen.

Also heard that one of the sets had a complete battery pack fall off from the underside of the unit whilst in motion on the North Berwick line. I think in the short term at least, Scotrail will be regretting choosing the Hitatchi AT200 range. I can't be that good an offering seeing as no other TOC has ordered any AT200 variant. Abellio have won 2 franchises recently and went for CAF, Stadler and Bombardier offerings. Maybe they've seen things in the Scotrail Hitatchi option that don't look promising?
In all fairness it is almost unknown for a new untried class to be flaw free, even tried and tested classes have brought up problems. Lets give them a chance and see how they settle down after a few years.
 

SC318250

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If you look back:

380 had issues delaying introduction
334 had issues delaying introduction

The delay with electrification has obviously put a delay on the start of electric services, but it was always planned to be 380s on the route 1st of all
 

380101

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If you look back:

380 had issues delaying introduction
334 had issues delaying introduction

The delay with electrification has obviously put a delay on the start of electric services, but it was always planned to be 380s on the route 1st of all
It was planned for 380 running on it for the original planned opening until the 385s were delivered; then it was to be 2 EMU services an hour with 380s back in May and then a mix of 380 and 385 from this December. Now it will only be a reduced 380 service from December as 385 driver training will not begin until early 2018 now. It will probably be the May 2018 timetable change before we see a full EMU service on the E-G.

I fully expect teething problems with a totally new design of train. However the big issue is that it has only just recently been discovered that the windscreens cause single aspect signals to appear as a double aspect. Why has it not been discovered over in the Czech republic on the Velim test track where there's been 2 385 units on test there for months. They surely must have signals on it.
 
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https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-scotrail/news/what-spectacular-finish
What a spectacular finish!
Tuesday, 7 November 2017

New trains for Scotland are another step closer as the ScotRail Alliance today revealed the interiors of its new fleet.

The new Class 385 electric trains - which are being built by Hitachi Rail Europe - will deliver faster journeys, more seats and better services for Scotland when they are rolled out next year.

One of the first fully fitted trains was recently completed at Hitachi Rail Europe’s Newton Aycliffe plant. Offering bright, modern, contemporary finishes, once in service, customers across the central belt will benefit from:
  • Power sockets at each pair of seats
  • Free WiFi throughout the train
  • More luggage storage
  • Cycle spaces in a clearly marked area
  • Flexible storage area (prams, golf clubs etc)
  • Two wheelchair spaces
  • Accessible toilet in every train, including a new ‘assist’ facility to allow companion access to the cubicle while maintaining privacy
  • Windows closely aligned with seats
Dedicated first class carriages boast plug sockets at every seat, premium leather seats, LED lighting and more luggage storage.

Class 385s can operate in three, four, six, seven and eight car formations, providing much more flexibility to match demand with capacity. Unlike the existing Class 170 trains, the Class 385 have ‘through’ gangways between all coaches so that every part of the train can be accessed from the inside.

Electric trains mean no diesel engines, resulting in quieter journeys for customers and reduced noise pollution for those living and working near the railway.

When eight-car trains are introduced on the Edinburgh – Glasgow via Falkirk High route, this will improve capacity by up to 44% at peak times.

There will also be more seats during peak periods on the Glasgow / Edinburgh – Stirling / Dunblane / Alloa lines, Edinburgh - North Berwick, and Glasgow Central – Edinburgh via Shotts.

ScotRail Alliance Managing Director Alex Hynes said:

“It’s great to finally see the interiors of our new trains. They look great, and I know customers will agree.
“The finish of these trains will significantly improve the experience of customers travelling with us. Their design has resulted in bright, spacious and accessible carriages – perfect for commuters, business customers and leisure travellers alike.
“We’re building the best railway Scotland has ever had - and providing our customers with modern trains plays a big part in that.”

Mitsuo Iwasaki, Head of Technical at Hitachi Rail Europe, said:

“We expect customers to be really pleased with the interiors of our new trains. We’ve worked closely with ScotRail and various passenger groups to include their ideas into the design and the result is a visible improvement for people travelling.
“In addition to full size tables and more seats, customers will also now be able to stay better connected on their journey with fast WiFi and plug sockets.”


NOTES

The new trains are part of our plan to build the best railway Scotland has ever had. This is part of a £475million investment programme from Abellio ScotRail, and major investment by the Scottish Government and Network Rail to electrify the railway between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Rollout
The Class 385s will be phased in gradually. The trains will enter service first on the newly electrified Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk High route – Scotland’s busiest route – before being rolled out to the following lines:
  • Edinburgh – North Berwick
  • South Glasgow suburban routes - Cathcart Circle / Neilston / Lanark
  • Glasgow/ Edinburgh – Dunblane / Stirling / Alloa
  • Glasgow – Falkirk Grahamston via Cumbernauld
  • Glasgow Central – Edinburgh via Shotts
Emissions
Class 385 trains require less energy to operate - around 18% more energy efficient than the diesel trains that they will replace.
CO2 is produced at the source of electricity, so cleaner air – resulting in 21%* reduction in the CO2 footprint; electric trains produce around 1,650g of carbon per vehicle mile compared with around 2,100g per vehicle mile for the diesel trains that they will replace.
* 21% is based on annual emissions from current ScotRail Alliance diesel and electric train fleets. More accurate measurements will be possible when the Class 385s have been delivered and fully tested.

Hitachi Rail Europe
Hitachi Rail Europe established a base for operations in Glasgow in April 2015, allowing it to work closely with Abellio in the delivery of the Class 385 trains.

The contract between Hitachi and Abellio ScotRail includes a 10-year maintenance deal where the trains will be maintained by Hitachi at Craigentinny depot in Edinburgh.

Abellio and Hitachi have committed to increasing reliability and lowering ‘whole-life ‘costs through continuous improvement work streams and greater use of remote monitoring techniques.
 

SC318250

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Is there a date in yet for one of the completed ones to come north yet?

Looks like some fast testing happening this week overnight on EDB-GLQ line with the 385s
Just over 40 mins journey time
 
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absolutelymilk

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Is there a date in yet for one of the completed ones to come north yet?

Looks like some fast testing happening this week overnight on EDB-GLQ line with the 385s
Just over 40 mins journey time
For context, with stops at Motherwell and Haymarket, it looks like current journey times are about an hour, so a big saving!
 
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mcmad

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Not really, they aren't being deployed on the carstairs route but the direct E&G via falkirk high , 40 minutes nutes non stop is th same as current would manage
 

InOban

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Presumably the completed ones aren't coming North until they've sorted the issue with multiple images through the driver's window?
 

Train man

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Watched the interior video earlier and the doesn't show the First Class interior must've been a 3 car one I think. Does anyone know when the one from Germany are due over anyone fill me in.
 

380101

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Are they being tested in Germany?

Yes. Dynamic speed testing up to 100mph but being loco hauled during testing due to OHLE differences. This testing is for checking the bogies and suspension are working correctly at max. running speeds.
 

InOban

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http://www.scotsman.com/news/transp...-trains-now-due-for-february-launch-1-4607932
ScotRail's new fleet of electric trains will not enter service on the main Edinburgh-Glasgow line until late March, The Scotsman has learned. The Japanese-designed Hitachi Class 385 trains were due to have been introduced on the route in September.

ScotRail said there had also been setbacks with train production at Hitachi's factory in County Durham.

He said he expected to have 21 of the trains available in February, but repeated his view that "rushing them into traffic" before being fully tested could hit the route's performance, which was "the last thing customers want"....


Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/transp...trains-not-now-expected-until-march-1-4607932
Apparently they won't carry passengers until February. Some 380 services may start next month.
 
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