Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[Fleetwood Boy]

Back to the future . I think a few 320s have been that way recently , as for 318s first time since 2011?

Wonder where those are coming from? Short forming on the Argyle Line?

Are there spare EMUs anywhere that could set up a temporary cascade, which not only ScotRail but also whoever’s scheduled to receive DMUs from them?

 

[47271]

Railway chief targets Edinburgh-Glasgow in 39 minutes


https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ets-edinburgh-glasgow-in-39-minutes-1-4691005

It's The Scotsman and not a mention of missing out intermediate stops at short notice as part of Scotrail's plans to reduce end to end times, lol.

 

[Failed Unit]

Wonder where those are coming from? Short forming on the Argyle Line?

Are there spare EMUs anywhere that could set up a temporary cascade, which not only ScotRail but also whoever’s scheduled to receive DMUs from them?

The 365s from Great northern are going into store. But would they get route clearance and driver training done before May?

 

[InOban]

The usual delivery paths for Wednesday and Friday are in RTT this week. Whether either of them will operate, we'll see.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Railway chief targets Edinburgh-Glasgow in 39 minutes


https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ets-edinburgh-glasgow-in-39-minutes-1-4691005

I think this might well be possible. Instead of adding a fast 2tph on top, like what the original EGIP plan was, they can make the existing 4tph as fast as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if this speed required the Dalmeny Chord and Greenhill grade-separation to minimise junction conflicts. There's little point rewriting the timetable if the E&G services will have to slow to a crawl past Murrayfield in the peak.

 

[gingertom]

Are there spare EMUs anywhere that could set up a temporary cascade, which not only ScotRail but also whoever’s scheduled to receive DMUs from them?
I've heard from a pretty good source that some 319s and 365s are being considered for short term hire until the 385s are ready. No doubt these will go on Ayrshire & Inverclyde services to allow 380s to be used on the E&G.

 

[SC318250]

There is 3 additional 320/4 units due from April, tho I think only one is at Kilmarnock at present

How long would conversion course on 319 be for those drivers passed on 318/320.

 

[43096]

There is 3 additional 320/4 units due from April, tho I think only one is at Kilmarnock at present

How long would conversion course on 319 be for those drivers passed on 318/320.

In total there are 5 extra 320s due. Personally I would send them up as 4-car 321s now and restrict them to Gourock/Wemyss Bay, and cascade 380s to Edinburgh-Glasgow.

 

[380101]

Are there spare EMUs anywhere that could set up a temporary cascade, which not only ScotRail but also whoever’s scheduled to receive DMUs from them?
I've heard from a pretty good source that some 319s and 365s are being considered for short term hire until the 385s are ready. No doubt these will go on Ayrshire & Inverclyde services to allow 380s to be used on the E&G.

Unlikely to use any other units on the Ayrshire routes due to there being no DOO equipment on any of the platforms now. I can already predict the massive delays caused by drivers walking the full length of trains to carry out train safety checks before departing every station if working a train that has no onboard DOO cameras. I'll certainly be doing it if we get any other units on the Ayr lines that do not have DOO cameras fitted.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

In total there are 5 extra 320s due. Personally I would send them up as 4-car 321s now and restrict them to Gourock/Wemyss Bay, and cascade 380s to Edinburgh-Glasgow.

Not sure Inverclyde lines need 4 cars, but there may be some 6 car formations on other lines which could temporarily be 4 cars thereby releasing two units for use elsewhere?

 

[Southsider]

Not sure Inverclyde lines need 4 cars, but there may be some 6 car formations on other lines which could temporarily be 4 cars thereby releasing two units for use elsewhere?

The problem is that there aren't enough peak time 6 car services as it is so someone will lose out. I agree that using the 321s as they stand could improve the situation. Would it be possible to run a 321+320 7 car combo on the Edinburgh to Glasgow rather than the reshuffle to free 380s? I assume they would be able to meet 170 timetables.
Edit - they could run as 8 car which is more or less the same length as a 7 car 380.

 

[Clansman]

Would it be possible to run a 321+320 7 car combo on the Edinburgh to Glasgow rather than the reshuffle to free 380s?

In theory yes, in reality, no chance. It would be an embarrassment using EMUs of their dire quality, especially as E-G is Scotland's flagship route. On the journey time front, I doubt they'd even compete against 170s seeing as the vast chunk of 320s don't go above 90mph IIRC.

 

[mde]

In theory yes, in reality, no chance. It would be an embarrassment using EMUs of their dire quality, especially as E-G is Scotland's flagship route.

Could be worse… they could use a 314.

 

[Carntyne]

I'm not sure introducing another additional train fleet into the mix, with all the training requirements and route clearance issues which would accompany it would speed up or help the situation? Hitachi just need to get their finger out and sort the 385s, quickly!

 

[380101]

The problem is that there aren't enough peak time 6 car services as it is so someone will lose out. I agree that using the 321s as they stand could improve the situation. Would it be possible to run a 321+320 7 car combo on the Edinburgh to Glasgow rather than the reshuffle to free 380s? I assume they would be able to meet 170 timetables.
Edit - they could run as 8 car which is more or less the same length as a 7 car 380.

No. No driver on that signs these units for a start. Secondly, I dont think 318/320s have any guard panels at the saloon doors which would be required for Driver/Guard operation on the E-G. Thirdly, I'm not sure the trolley service would be able to negotiate the 3+2 seating layout.

 

[92002]

I think this might well be possible. Instead of adding a fast 2tph on top, like what the original EGIP plan was, they can make the existing 4tph as fast as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if this speed required the Dalmeny Chord and Greenhill grade-separation to minimise junction conflicts. There's little point rewriting the timetable if the E&G services will have to slow to a crawl past Murrayfield in the peak.

Perhaps they should split the 380s after the peaks like the 170s used to be. Some170s also not splitting after the peaks too. Should create a few extra trains.

 

[43096]

Perhaps they should split the 380s after the peaks like the 170s used to be. Some170s also not splitting after the peaks too. Should create a few extra trains.

That doesn't really help though, as the biggest issue is providing enough trains for the peak.

 

[92002]

That doesn't really help though, as the biggest issue is providing enough trains for the peak.

They could of course bring in their additional 321s, use them as 4 cars in Inverclyde and release more 380s.

 

[Clansman]

I can see services through Airdrie and Bathgate taking the hit as a knock on effect, should ScotRail try to increase the number of 380s on EG to release 170s on other routes. Can't really envisage a better solution other than Hitachi conjuring up a miracle.

 

[380101]

I can see services through Airdrie and Bathgate taking the hit as a knock on effect, should ScotRail try to increase the number of 380s on EG to release 170s on other routes. Can't really envisage a better solution other than Hitachi conjuring up a miracle.

The issue with taking 380s away from Ayrshire/Inverclyde services is merely moving the lack of rolling stock issue elsewhere. Most Ayrshire services during the morning and evening peaks are full and standing as it is and some could definately do with being 8 cars. Why should Ayrshire and Inverclyde passengers suffer even more overcrowding and short formed services jist because Hitatchi have failed miserably to design a fit for purpose gangway fitted driving cab?

ScotRail were offered 2 car 170s from down south to be available this year to ease DMU shortages but turned them down because of them not having gangways. I'm guessing they might be regretting that decision this month.

 

[Southsider]

I can see services through Airdrie and Bathgate taking the hit as a knock on effect, should ScotRail try to increase the number of 380s on EG to release 170s on other routes. Can't really envisage a better solution other than Hitachi conjuring up a miracle.

I doubt it as they are actively trying to persuade travellers to use that route by reducing the fares.

 

[Clansman]

Why should Ayrshire and Inverclyde passengers suffer even more overcrowding and short formed services jist because Hitatchi have failed miserably to design a fit for purpose gangway fitted driving cab?

I never suggested they should. I was suggesting where the mitigation on other routes would come from if rolling stock was redeployed to cope with the DMU shortfall.

I doubt it as they are actively trying to persuade travellers to use that route by reducing the fares.

True, but then again, there's Shotts and Carstairs also. Also got to bare in mind that there's little chance of shafting season ticket holders onto these three routes, so reducing fares won't solve the whole problem.

 

[Southsider]

Here's one from left-field! Could the 385s get limited clearance for daylight hours only, assuming the reflection issue only manifests itself in darkness?

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

At a very crude calculation I’d estimate that there’s 5 remaining 380 diagrams on Inverclydes in the peaks, most (if not all) being 3 cars. I think there might be 1 or 2 380 diagrams on the Carstairs services. And aren’t the North Berwicks done by 380s?

That doesn’t add up to enough to cover the EG diagrams which are currently 170s, so even if spare units can be conjured up from somewhere to release those 380s that’s not enough? So some Ayrshires would also have to lose their 380s.

318s and 320s might be suitable replacements. But there’s 16 diagrams required to cover EG in the peaks (assuming every peak departure needs 2 units) and only 4 currently scheduled for 380s so there’s a deficit of 12 units per day. Squeezing that out of current resources just doesn’t sound credible?

So surely ScR will need to borrow something from somewhere?

 

[gsnedders]

One thing I didn't realise was happening until seeing it today was 380 ECS moves going via LL (running from Queen Street through Springburn and round into Low Level, continuing to the Hyndland Loop Line where they reverse to go through Central Low Level and round from Rutherglen to Shields). It makes as much sense as anything else, but for some reason I thought they were all being moved via Carstairs from Edinburgh or overnighting at Eastfield.

 

[Highlandspring]

The 380s go to Shields for CET and tanking as the facilities at Eastfield aren't quite ready yet (though the first electric unit did visit the depot during the day week or so ago)

 

[scotraildriver]

Here's one from left-field! Could the 385s get limited clearance for daylight hours only, assuming the reflection issue only manifests itself in darkness?

No, because tunnels are dark in daylight hours and there are signals in tunnels.

 

[InOban]

Tonight's delivery seems to be off again, or at least the engine movement from Tyne yard had been cancelled. That's two weeks running.. It really seems have been suspended ....

 

[route101]

One thing I didn't realise was happening until seeing it today was 380 ECS moves going via LL (running from Queen Street through Springburn and round into Low Level, continuing to the Hyndland Loop Line where they reverse to go through Central Low Level and round from Rutherglen to Shields). It makes as much sense as anything else, but for some reason I thought they were all being moved via Carstairs from Edinburgh or overnighting at Eastfield.

Id thought it would easier to go via Coatbridge Central and Carmyle on the ECS

 

[Typhoon_93]

Aycliffe update:-
385003-013 all complete and on test/receiving mods.
385031/033 being prepared for delivery.
385105/106 starting testing.
385107-115 in production.
385116 being delivered (shells)