Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[47271]

This thread is taking twists and turns - next up someone will suggest that if Macbraynes find themselves running Scotrail then they should operate train ferries between Oban and Mallaig because the tourists will love them!

 

[Highland37]

Food for thought, even Norway has its fair share of small passenger vessels.

And in the high season, its not hundreds, it's more like thousands.

I am not so sure the numbers are as high as you think. I was on the bridge of the Loch Seaforth and the Hebrides 4 times in 2 weeks and at no point did the numbers of passengers on board any one vessel go above 340.

 

[Altnabreac]

This thread is taking twists and turns - next up someone will suggest that if Macbraynes find themselves running Scotrail then they should operate train ferries between Oban and Mallaig because the tourists will love them!

I sailed with Calmac from Kyle of Lochalsh to Mallaig on the Lochmor in about 1994 as part of a trip from Inverness to Fort William by rail and boat. It was a very useful service for the rail traveller albeit from memory in ran once a week in high peak season only.

 

[mcmad]

No surprise really for anyone who actually has to use Scotrail that performance has dropped to a new low. Interesting that the performance benchmarking has been waived though. One day of wind is the issue if you read further down....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45991467

ScotRail's performance level is at its lowest since the franchise began, according to new figures.

They showed 81.8% of services arrived within five minutes of scheduled time between 16 September and 13 October.

ScotRail's moving annual average for punctuality also hit a franchise low of 87.5% - below the agreed breach level of 88.22%.

ScotRail said there had been "significant disruption" as a result of Storm Ali in September.

The rail operator, whose franchise began on 1 April 2015, was fined more than £2.2m for performance breaches in the first half of 2018.

The new performance figures came as a freedom of information request by Scottish Labour revealed that ScotRail's performance benchmarks were waived last month by Scottish Transport Secretary Michael Matheson until June 2019.

The waiver included the caveat that "any further drop-off in performance will be unacceptable".

 

[Mingulay]

No surprise really for anyone who actually has to use Scotrail that performance has dropped to a new low. Interesting that the performance benchmarking has been waived though. One day of wind is the issue if you read further down....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45991467

​

The performance stats are hugely misleading and paint a better picture than reality. Albeit in defence of scotrail on my line they have been better the last six months than they were the last 2 years.

Yes it’s ludicrous to blame the weather in Scotland. Every year we get an autumn and a winter . It gets wet windy and sometimes a wee bit of snow and low temps but nothing unpredictable or unusual or extreme. But it’s a god send for excusing management failure and bad statistics to blame the weather !

 

[Stopper]

The Storm Ali would undoubtedly have had an effect on the punctuality of services, same goes for the heavy snow in and around March time. However don’t forget that for most (if not all - I can’t remember) of 2018, there has been EMUs on the E-G running to a diesel timetable, which effectively cancels out the bad storm as far as I’m concerned, so that’s not an excuse.

 

[takno]

The Storm Ali would undoubtedly have had an effect on the punctuality of services, same goes for the heavy snow in and around March time. However don’t forget that for most (if not all - I can’t remember) of 2018, there has been EMUs on the E-G running to a diesel timetable, which effectively cancels out the bad storm as far as I’m concerned, so that’s not an excuse.

Why would that cancel anything out? AFAIK they don't get to subtract 5 minutes of delay on another service if one gets in 5 minutes early.

 

[hexagon789]

Why would that cancel anything out? AFAIK they don't get to subtract 5 minutes of delay on another service if one gets in 5 minutes early.

No, but their superior acceleration means that where possible they can make up lost time far more easily.

 

[Stopper]

Why would that cancel anything out? AFAIK they don't get to subtract 5 minutes of delay on another service if one gets in 5 minutes early.

They are using Storm Ali as an excuse for the drop in “on-time” services which they are implying creates false losses.

However, the electrics all year on the E-G have been running on a diesel timetable which means they are more likely to be on time (and most have been, some even early in my experience), which also creates a false benefit.

So Alex Hynes can blame Storm Ali all he wants, but without both Storm Ali and the electrics running to diesel timings, I suspect the figures would be similar regardless.

 

[takno]

They are using Storm Ali as an excuse for the drop in “on-time” services which they are implying creates false losses.

However, the electrics all year on the E-G have been running on a diesel timetable which means they are more likely to be on time (and most have been, some even early in my experience), which also creates a false benefit.

So Alex Hynes can blame Storm Ali all he wants, but without both Storm Ali and the electrics running to diesel timings, I suspect the figures would be similar regardless.

The Edinburgh-Glasgow trains are maybe 2% of all the trains ScotRail operate, whereas over 4% of the services ScotRail ran during the 28 day reference period were on the storm day, which would easily cancel out any benefit.

In any case, most of the delay Edinburgh-Glasgow trains pick up is at one end of the journey or the other, getting stuck behind a bathgate line train or delayed waiting for a platform at Queen Street. The extra speed (which they can only take advantage of after the penultimate station anyway) rarely allows them to avoid these situations

 

[Stopper]

The Edinburgh-Glasgow trains are maybe 2% of all the trains ScotRail operate, whereas over 4% of the services ScotRail ran during the 28 day reference period were on the storm day, which would easily cancel out any benefit.

In any case, most of the delay Edinburgh-Glasgow trains pick up is at one end of the journey or the other, getting stuck behind a bathgate line train or delayed waiting for a platform at Queen Street. The extra speed (which they can only take advantage of after the penultimate station anyway) rarely allows them to avoid these situations

It still would have reduced delays on the E-G regardless. There were plenty of trains delayed everywhere along the line when they were diesel operated. Electrics running on diesel timetables will affect figures in a positive way, so the figure that is being blamed on Storm Ali, would have been even lower if it wasn’t for this.

Also, I don’t know the exact figures but I’d be very surprised if E-G amounted to only 2% of ScotRail’s services.

 

[HH]

Also, I don’t know the exact figures but I’d be very surprised if E-G amounted to only 2% of ScotRail’s services.

Which E-G services? And are you measuring by number or miles run?

 

[route101]

The Edinburgh-Glasgow trains are maybe 2% of all the trains ScotRail operate, whereas over 4% of the services ScotRail ran during the 28 day reference period were on the storm day, which would easily cancel out any benefit.

In any case, most of the delay Edinburgh-Glasgow trains pick up is at one end of the journey or the other, getting stuck behind a bathgate line train or delayed waiting for a platform at Queen Street. The extra speed (which they can only take advantage of after the penultimate station anyway) rarely allows them to avoid these situations

In my experience going Glasgow to Haymarket is quick if you dont get held at signals etc . Other way your lucky and dont get held into Queen St .

 

[takno]

In my experience going Glasgow to Haymarket is quick if you dont get held at signals etc . Other way your lucky and dont get held into Queen St .

I've been late back to Edinburgh every time on an electric so far. Got stuck behind a late-running Bathgate train every time I've done it. Glasgow arrivals have never been more than 2 early, and was late on one of them waiting for a slow departure crossing our path. Suffice to say I don't think prior to the timetable change that electrics on the E-G is helping at all

 

[Gooner18]

Is it not the Scot rail side that’s losing money requires abellio to need a bail out ?

 

[Meole]

Human waste re-introduced to the pw as of next week courtesy the HST upgrade.

 

[Carlisle]

Human waste re-introduced to the pw as of next week courtesy the HST upgrade.

If it’s only a temporary arrangement the RMT are making a huge fuss over not a lot, but if there’s no plans to fit CET tanks it sounds serious

 

[OrangeJuice]

If it’s only a temporary arrangement the RMT are making a huge fuss over not a lot, but if there’s no plans to fit CET tanks it sounds serious

From what I've heard it's a temporary arrangement caused by delays at Wabtec converting/upgrading the coaches. As Scotrail have been transferring 170's to Northern they decided to introduce unrefurbished HST's to cover (possibly to match those that should've already been in service). I'm assuming these unrefurbished sets won't have power doors yet either?

All the HST's will be fully refurbished over time as said in the BBC article to match the first set introduced.

Also its no different from the LNER HST's or 158's which also use the route currently, but yes it isn't ideal

 

[Carlisle]

Thanks for the info, sounds almost a non issue then .

 

[OrangeJuice]

Thanks for the info, sounds almost a non issue then .

That's how I read it too. The RMT making a big deal out of nothing really.

 

[InOban]

There are lots of unrefurbished 156 vehicles on the Scotrail network which also discharge on to the track, I believe.
.

 

[pemma]

There are lots of unrefurbished 156 vehicles on the Scotrail network which also discharge on to the track, I believe.
.

And if they introduce the HSTs Scotrail will be in a position to release them.

 

[mde]

There are lots of unrefurbished 156 vehicles on the Scotrail network which also discharge on to the track, I believe.
.

The WHL ones that appear down at Glasgow Central occasionally on Strathclyde services seem to have been fitted with the vacuum loos even in pre-refurb state (had a rather ratty 156 456 last week on EK line), so, I’m not sure how many 156s still have this particular problem.

This story does make me wonder though, has Brother Cash not travelled on the nationalised operator recently? Surely he’d know LNER have the same awful problem…

 

[route101]

The WHL ones that appear down at Glasgow Central occasionally on Strathclyde services seem to have been fitted with the vacuum loos even in pre-refurb state (had a rather ratty 156 456 last week on EK line), so, I’m not sure how many 156s still have this particular problem.

This story does make me wonder though, has Brother Cash not travelled on the nationalised operator recently? Surely he’d know LNER have the same awful problem…

Often wonder how the WHL 156s make there way onto EK services ? Used to be ones with blue seats

 

[Kite159]

Often wonder how the WHL 156s make there way onto EK services ? Used to be ones with blue seats

Because the Scottish 156s are maintained at Corkerhill, and not all the WHL ones are needed for West Highland services, so they are used for other 156 worked services

I believe the usual route for the ECS services is via the City Union line, for example http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G94435/2018/10/30/advanced (2137 Glasgow Queen Street to Corkerhill C.S.M.D.)

 

[Highlandspring]

I believe the usual route for the ECS services is via the City Union line, for example http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G94435/2018/10/30/advanced (2137 Glasgow Queen Street to Corkerhill C.S.M.D.)

I have never known WHL 156s transfer between Corker and QS using any other route.

 

[alangla]

I have never known WHL 156s transfer between Corker and QS using any other route.

Did there not used to be some convoluted ones where a unit would come off the WHL, do a single trip to Cumbernauld & then head to Corker via the R&C, being replaced by something coming from Whifflet or the Motherwell to Cumbernauld run? Think this would be about the time 158s first started appearing at Whifflet etc.
Obviously this is long gone with the R&C and Cumbernauld being electrified

 

[380101]

There are lots of unrefurbished 156 vehicles on the Scotrail network which also discharge on to the track, I believe.
.

All the 156s have toilet tanks fitted now and have done since December last year as per the agreement reached between RMT, ScotRail and the Scottish government. I believe the 158s are also fitted but they had issues with the internal coating on the tank caused by urine.

You certainly know the difference in Glaagow Central now. No piles of toilet waste in the 4foot of platforms or on track in the Bridge Street area where the 156 toilet gps system auto flushed the toilets prior to tanks being fitted.

 

[scotraildriver]

There are lots of unrefurbished 156 vehicles on the Scotrail network which also discharge on to the track, I believe.
.

Honestly this forum drives me mad. I already said that all 156s have toilet tanks fitted, I drive them every day, it's blatantly obvious to traincrew as there are significant differences after the tanks were fitted yet people think they know better! There are NO 156s or 158s without CET tanks. None. Zero. Zilch.

 

[Bodiddly]

That's how I read it too. The RMT making a big deal out of nothing really.

Really? So by your post I can assume you don't work trackside or in train maintenance? Can I also assume you haven't been sprayed with a fine mist of urine and excrement or reached up to access an area under a coach and had to avoid human waste? I can assure you as someone who does work with them, it is a big issue.

Honestly this forum drives me mad. I already said that all 156s have toilet tanks fitted, I drive them every day, it's blatantly obvious to traincrew as there are significant differences after the tanks were fitted yet people think they know better! There are NO 156s or 158s without CET tanks. None. Zero. Zilch.

Yeh, but, but, what do you know eh?