Scotrail Franchise - Barriered stations

[Altnabreac]

Now I think this is a list of stations served by Scotrail that are currently (at least partially) barriered:
Glasgow Central
Edinburgh Waverley
Glasgow Queen Street
Aberdeen
Stirling
Haymarket
Charing Cross
Dundee
Ayr
Argyle Street
Motherwell
Inverness
Perth
Anderston
Edinburgh Park (planned I believe but not yet installed?)

This is a list of stations Scotrail serve with more than 1,500,000 entries and exits in 2012-13:
Glasgow Central
Edinburgh Waverley
Glasgow Queen Street
Paisley Gilmour Street
Aberdeen
Partick
Stirling
Haymarket
Charing Cross
Dundee
Ayr

This is the text in the SPT section of the Abellio Scotrail Franchise brochure:

Improvements to stations and facilities, including at Partick and Paisley Gilmour Street

Am I putting 2+2 together in imagining barriers may be on their way to these stations under Abellio?

There was nothing in the Franchise tender requiring bidders to barrier more stations but nothing preventing it either. Certainly seems logical that these two might be the ones with the best business case for installation on a purely commercial basis.

Any other suggestions from people of suitable stations for gating?

 

[route:oxford]

Am I putting 2+2 together in imagining barriers may be on their way to these stations under Abellio?

There was nothing in the Franchise tender requiring bidders to barrier more stations but nothing preventing it either. Certainly seems logical that these two might be the ones with the best business case for installation on a purely commercial basis.

Any other suggestions from people of suitable stations for gating?

If it meant a serious improvement to the station facilities - I'd suggest Falkirk Grahamston.

 

[Yorkshireguy]

Hmm... Edinburgh Park'll be a bit of a trouble to barrier, I think.

 

[RPI]

I thought Paisley Gilmour street did have barriers?

 

[13 valleys]

I'm surprised Motherwell hasn't been mentioned for planned improvements.In theory it is a mainline station, with huge passenger volume.With the smart cards being introduced on this line I would have thought ticket gates would have been considered.

 

[92002]

Hmm... Edinburgh Park'll be a bit of a trouble to barrier, I think.

What makes you think that.

It has an entrance on either platform. With one being an interchange with tram. Tram is open station, but buy your ticket before joining.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I thought Paisley Gilmour street did have barriers?

Last time I checked it was not a barrier station.

Paisley, Johnstone, Kilwinning and Irvine would be a good investment.

Despite the on train staffs best efforts there is much free travel to collect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm surprised Motherwell hasn't been mentioned for planned improvements.In theory it is a mainline station, with huge passenger volume.With the smart cards being introduced on this line I would have thought ticket gates would have been considered.

Motherwell, Airbles, Hamilton Central and Bellshill would be a useful addition.

 

[Simon11]

I put together this part of the bid for another bidder and most of the stations listed here we were planning to gate.

You firstly look at footfall and then look at the available ticketless travel (which is very poor for ScotRail). Then next step is to look at the feasibility of the schemes, number of separate gates required (focusing on staff costs) and most importantly costs. For any scheme to go ahead, you have to make sure it breaks even by the end of the franchise, which can be a challenge even some difficult busy stations. Also remember that you won't be able to gate the stations by day one, so there's only a few years to recover your costs to make a worthwhile return.

There's also the aspect of improving the gates, particularly at Glasgow Queen Street.

 

[Chrism20]

If it meant a serious improvement to the station facilities - I'd suggest Falkirk Grahamston.

I'd say Falkirk High with 1m passengers a year would be much further up the queue than Grahamston and probably much easier to gate. Polmont is busier than Grahamston IIRC.

In fact I'm surprised Falkirk High hasn't been done, the amount of people who get off the train at Queen Street and go to purchase a ticket at times is shocking although I'm guessing it hasn't been done due to gates at either end of the line already which is where the majority will be going.

 

[170401]

I'd say Falkirk High with 1m passengers a year would be much further up the queue than Grahamston and probably much easier to gate. Polmont is busier than Grahamston IIRC.

In fact I'm surprised Falkirk High hasn't been done, the amount of people who get off the train at Queen Street and go to purchase a ticket at times is shocking although I'm guessing it hasn't been done due to gates at either end of the line already which is where the majority will be going.

I'd say Falkirk Grahamston has a much bigger problem with fare evasion than Falkirk High, particularly in the peaks when many are travelling to and from colleges in Falkirk. That said though, most of this is fairly low value fares from the likes of Linlithgow, Polmont, larbert etc.

Edinburgh park would be a good choice as this growing station is extremely busy in the peaks and even off peak with the nearby university campus can be a hotbed for ticketless travel.

 

[Altnabreac]

I'd say Falkirk Grahamston has a much bigger problem with fare evasion than Falkirk High, particularly in the peaks when many are travelling to and from colleges in Falkirk. That said though, most of this is fairly low value fares from the likes of Linlithgow, Polmont, larbert etc.

Edinburgh park would be a good choice as this growing station is extremely busy in the peaks and even off peak with the nearby university campus can be a hotbed for ticketless travel.

I suspect "destinations" are a better business case than "origins". High is much more an origin station, especially since most of the Infirmary jobs were moved to Larbert.

As you say this may favour Grahamston.

 

[oldman]

Edinburgh park would be a good choice as this growing station is extremely busy in the peaks and even off peak with the nearby university campus can be a hotbed for ticketless travel.

Is Edinburgh Park staffed now? I know it wasn't when it opened. I guess you can't have barriers at an unmanned station.

 

[Class83]

Is Edinburgh Park staffed now? I know it wasn't when it opened. I guess you can't have barriers at an unmanned station.

Scotrail have mobile revenue protection teams which do manual barrier checks at open stations such as Edinburgh Par and South Gyle. The main city stations have gates now so there's probably a law of diminishing returns for much more in the way of barriers, excluding South Gyle & Edinburgh Park which have a lot of commuters, but aren't ideal for barriers. If Gogar is built perhaps this will be designed with gates.

 

[ADRboy]

Edinburgh Park getting them this winter.

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/ticketgates

 

[318259]

I'm surprised they didn't install ticket gates when they rebuilt Partick train station a few years ago. It would've been a smart move. Especially since the Subway at Partick has had barriers installed, removed, and new barriers installed.

Paisley Gilmour Street doesn't have ticket barriers at all.

Kilwinning would be a nightmare to install barriers at. The two side platforms have direct entrance from the street via a ramp, and the island platform has direct access from the car park. Installing barriers would mean closing this access and routing everyone through the ticket office, which would mean there's no way to access platforms 1 and 4 except over the stairs. In 2014, I don't think the Accessibility Police will let you do that.

 

[route:oxford]

Edinburgh Park getting them this winter.

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/ticketgates

I hope it is also getting some heating!

It is now a major interchange station for the tram to/from the airport. Whilst people working nearby have the benefit of planning their departure from the office around the live timetable, people disembarking from a tram in the evening to find it is 59 minutes to their next service to Stirling don't have that luxury.

The tram stop isn't much better... No protection from the biting winds - even if it is only for 10 minutes.

(I am very keen on the trams overall though!)

 

[Chrism20]

I hope it is also getting some heating!

It is now a major interchange station for the tram to/from the airport. Whilst people working nearby have the benefit of planning their departure from the office around the live timetable, people disembarking from a tram in the evening to find it is 59 minutes to their next service to Stirling don't have that luxury.

The tram stop isn't much better... No protection from the biting winds - even if it is only for 10 minutes.

(I am very keen on the trams overall though!)

From what I gather going by the Evening News today it's protection from the flying bricks you need when travelling by tram west of Murrayfield.

Apart from that though they are good.

 

[Bletchleyite]

(I am very keen on the trams overall though!)

I find it interesting that the cynicism is dying down now they are in and running. The project was a story of mismanagement from start to finish, but compared with the success of the Metrolink expansion project it is clear that the cause of that is bad management, not any issue with trams in and of themselves.

Neil

 

[170401]

I hope it is also getting some heating!

The tram stop isn't much better... No protection from the biting winds - even if it is only for 10 minutes.

Might be the way the stations aligned, but Edinburgh Park gets my vote as the windiest station in the country! I've been blown off my feet here even when there's been no wind elsewhere

Some heating would be lovely Heaven help the full time staff that get posted there!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Is it just gateline staff only or is there some provision of booking office etc presence?

 

[Starmill]

Edinbrugh Park's sole TVM doesn't even accept cash - too darn right it needs improved facilities!

 

[Altnabreac]

Kilwinning would be a nightmare to install barriers at. The two side platforms have direct entrance from the street via a ramp, and the island platform has direct access from the car park. Installing barriers would mean closing this access and routing everyone through the ticket office, which would mean there's no way to access platforms 1 and 4 except over the stairs. In 2014, I don't think the Accessibility Police will let you do that.

Perth was similar to this with a level access from the side car park ramp but they've left the side access in with a small gateline operated remotely by CCTV from the main barrier line in the ticket office.

 

[318259]

They've done the same at Ayr. The East car park has a small gateline (2 barriers).

They closed all access from the Western car park though: you have to go through the ticket hall.

It's doable, but I see some entrances getting closed off.

 

[13 valleys]

I was at Motherwell station today.There is manual barriers checking and selling tickets.There is also 2 ticket machines.Despite this the booking office with 2 clerks was busy.Overall the station was extremely busy.I would think there is a good business case for ticket gates at this station.A change of layout at the station entrance and booking office would be needed,but nothing major.

 

[380gk]

I was at Motherwell station today.There is manual barriers checking and selling tickets.There is also 2 ticket machines.Despite this the booking office with 2 clerks was busy.Overall the station was extremely busy.I would think there is a good business case for ticket gates at this station.A change of layout at the station entrance and booking office would be needed,but nothing major.

There is also manual barriers at paisley Gilmour street. Like.Motherwell, this is peak only.
Motherwell booking office (like others) is also responsible for issuing avantix machines and cashing up money from the TEs based here, which can be quite time consuming.

 

[13 valleys]

I was talking to one of the clerks at Motherwell,and he told me the workload with Advantix machines has increased.He said this is mainly to due extra TE's employed but also due to the fact that the Advantix machines are basically obsolete.They are now high maintenance and very time consuming when dealing with failures etc.I have seen some horrendous queues at the window,with only one clerk,jumping back and forward to deal with the TE's and passengers.I don't know if they have a staffing issues,but the poor guy was having a hectic time.

 

[Simon11]

If Abellio did their homework with their bid, they should be proposing to purchase new Avantix machines as well and considering to upgrade Motherwell, including a new row of barriers.

 

[13 valleys]

It sounds like they have done their homework,but I'm not sure if they would get pass marks.In their press release it suggested that they were going into fine detail,as they even mentioned that they would source local food products for the on train catering.However their was no mention of further investment on mobile ticketing machines.Scotrail seem to be in denial regarding the Advantix machines.They appear to be pushing the smart cards across the network but I'm not sure how this will work in practice.It seems time consuming for the TE's and guards.

 

[reb0118]

It seems time consuming for the TE's and guards.

Well at this one agrees with you. See below:-

Capital Rail Action Group

Dear All,
given how long it takes me to "read" so-called "smartcards" on the train and how often they come up - probably wrongly - as an "invalid product", the story below doesn't surprise me. Like similar cards in, for instance, Berlin used on the bus (where bus drivers just shrug and let you on), they're just a bit of plastic which hides any validity unless processed through the appropriate equipment. They're in truth not very "smart" at all - the eyes and brain that God gave me can process a printed ticket 20 to 30 times faster and with a friendly "thank you" to boot.
Never forget that Ken Livingstone increased the single Underground fare from, I think, £1.40 to £4.00 (it's now even dearer) to "encourage" folk to use Oyster. And that that has led to tickets offices being closed at mainline stations even at peak periods - there won't be any left soon anyway. Or that Oyster is old hat now - the new generation of cards can record every detail of your travel and other purchases. Such data has its uses in transport planning - but has also stimulated huge interest from many commercial firms who see how they can use this data to sell you things.
It's interesting that Southeastern have struck a deal with this "customer". They haven't taken him to court - yet would probably have done so if he'd avoided his fare on just a few occasions!

 

[380gk]

I was talking to one of the clerks at Motherwell,and he told me the workload with Advantix machines has increased.He said this is mainly to due extra TE's employed but also due to the fact that the Advantix machines are basically obsolete.They are now high maintenance and very time consuming when dealing with failures etc.I have seen some horrendous queues at the window,with only one clerk,jumping back and forward to deal with the TE's and passengers.I don't know if they have a staffing issues,but the poor guy was having a hectic time.

The situation at Motherwell isn't helped by the fact they've had an increase of TEs. I think there is somewhere in the region of 60 of them based there nowadays. The policy of clerks booking TEs on is fine at places that are small, but not quite as good an option here.

Of course, when the TE grade came around at first, the policy was small depots based at all major stations - I think TEs were based at places like paisley and queen street for a while, so it was less to deal with.