Scotrail Full Alcohol Ban

[Robertj21a]

Dry trains can be a pain in the backside to police, but I think for certain trains and stations, it's really effective. York during Ebor festival for example.

Issue is, I know so many who use the railway because of alcohol. They want a drink and therefore can't drive. Gigs, football, days out, food festivals. Promoting dry trains and not allowing some who've had a few drinks and are a bit loud is turning revenue and people away from a railway that will desperately need these people back from 2021/22 onwards. What we need to see is more security for staff and passengers. Whether that is BTP or security contractors.

Drunks and generally loud and abusive people on trains are already deterring many 'ordinary' passengers, particularly women.

 

[yorksrob]

If you think Shepherd Neame is a decent offering I can see why you were excited to Yorkshire.
(Whitstable Bay isn't too bad as a purchase of last resort)

Spitfire is perfectly quaffable, as are Masterbrew and 1698. Come to think of it, I remember getting one of their seasonal ales from the trolley on the way to Charing Cross once.

I did have some cans of Witstable bay on the train once. It tasted delicious, however it was a bit too lively and kept bubbling everywhere.

Yorkshire really does have a stunning range of ales and local breweries though. It's a very well supplied county !

 

[E502]

I can't disagree with any of this in the context of Covid. People taking the train to Fife to avoid central belt pub closures is ridiculous. But hidden in the piece the RMT line is:

"A total ban on alcohol is something we've been advocating for a number of years."

Is that really what they mean? If, in two years time, I'm a tourist travelling from Edinburgh to Inverness and I'm told that I can't be served a drink in my big comfy HST First Class seat, how does that make Scotland look?

I'm not saying that this would necessarily be the outcome, but we need be careful that it isn't.

Covid in Scotland: ScotRail 'considering' alcohol ban on trains

The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers said the move would be "problematic" but "welcomed".

www.bbc.co.uk

A total ban on alcohol (post Covid) is ridiculous. Ban it after 8 or 9pm; fair enough I would say (there is already a permanent ban after 10pm I think).

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

You've got that the wrong way round. It would be more effective to stop rowdy drunks getting on board in the first place.

My personal experience is that in the evening at least the worst problems come from people who are drinking onboard. Rowdy drunks still get onboard but generally they start to sober up and quiet down a bit on the train, or at least get no worse. On long distance trains, within an hour or so they're pretty manageable. People who keep on drinking just keep getting worse and can turn into a danger to themselves and everyone around them. Especially when they've switched from drinking slowly at Pub prices to downing an ambitiously sized carry-out before they get home.

What we need to see is more security for staff and passengers. Whether that is BTP or security contractors.

Yep. Lots of people don't feel safe on late night trains. I know a lot of people who try to sit next to staff or BTP wherever they can.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My personal experience is that in the evening at least the worst problems come from people who are drinking onboard. Rowdy drunks still get onboard but generally they start to sober up and quiet down a bit on the train, or at least get no worse. On long distance trains, within an hour or so they're pretty manageable. People who keep on drinking just keep getting worse and can turn into a danger to themselves and everyone around them. Especially when they've switched from drinking slowly at Pub prices to downing an ambitiously sized carry-out before they get home.

I wonder if you get more of this in places where the last train home is typically quite a bit earlier than around London and other big city innersuburban routes? I've very rarely seen late night drinkers on Merseyrail (though I have seen a spliff passed around once years ago), and you also don't get many on the 0010 off Euston on a Saturday night (a classic "vomit comet") - probably because they've had their night out and are then just winding down with a coffee or a Coke and a stinky but otherwise harmless Burger King instead of a kebab. Whereas if your last train home is 2200 or earlier, is it perhaps an extension of your night out?

 

[TheSel]

I wonder if you get more of this in places where the last train home is typically quite a bit earlier than around London and other big city innersuburban routes? I've very rarely seen late night drinkers on Merseyrail (though I have seen a spliff passed around once years ago), and you also don't get many on the 0010 off Euston on a Saturday night (a classic "vomit comet") - probably because they've had their night out and are then just winding down with a coffee or a Coke and a stinky but otherwise harmless Burger King instead of a kebab. Whereas if your last train home is 2200 or earlier, is it perhaps an extension of your night out?

Alcohol banned on Merseyrail since 2014.

Notification of New Byelaw

www.merseyrail.org

From January 2014 byelaw 4 changes (called ‘Intoxication and Possession of Alcohol’) and it will be an offence to carry open containers/vessels of alcohol on Merseyrail stations and trains.


It will also be an offence to consume alcohol on Merseyrail stations and trains. If you are observed doing either of the above you may be reported and face prosecution.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

I wonder if you get more of this in places where the last train home is typically quite a bit earlier than around London and other big city innersuburban routes? I've very rarely seen late night drinkers on Merseyrail (though I have seen a spliff passed around once years ago), and you also don't get many on the 0010 off Euston on a Saturday night (a classic "vomit comet") - probably because they've had their night out and are then just winding down with a coffee or a Coke and a stinky but otherwise harmless Burger King instead of a kebab. Whereas if your last train home is 2200 or earlier, is it perhaps an extension of your night out?

That's a good point tbh, although counterintuitively I think trouble on late night trains is often cited as a reason why not to run later trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Alcohol banned on Merseyrail since 2014.

I know; most of my late night Merseyrail experience is from the mid 90s to the early 2000s.

 

[yorksrob]

That's a good point tbh, although counterintuitively I think trouble on late night trains is often cited as a reason why not to run later trains.

Indeed. Cutting later night services is often entirely counter-productive.

 

[SuperNova]

Maybe we could charge them full price to ride in freight wagons? With the amount of damage they can cause and the cost of extra police and security I doubt the railway makes a profit...

Putting all football fans in one category isn't very fair. I'm a football fan, I travel countrywide supporting my team - part of the charm with rail is you can have a drink. Tens of thousands travel my rail every weekend - a minority might cause issues but they're a very big driver of revenue.

 

[Purple Orange]

Putting all football fans in one category isn't very fair. I'm a football fan, I travel countrywide supporting my team - part of the charm with rail is you can have a drink. Tens of thousands travel my rail every weekend - a minority might cause issues but they're a very big driver of revenue.

Well said. There is a snobbery that some people hold against football fans. Image is everything.

 

[och aye]

Well said. There is a snobbery that some people hold against football fans. Image is everything.

Indeed. You hear very little criticism of some rugby union/league fans compared to football fans, although granted they are in smaller number compared to travelling football fans.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I know; most of my late night Merseyrail experience is from the mid 90s to the early 2000s.

I was not aware of an alcohol ban on Merseyrail. How does the average passenger know if the train they wish to use has an alcohol ban?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was not aware of an alcohol ban on Merseyrail. How does the average passenger know if the train they wish to use has an alcohol ban?

Merseyrail has posters about it all over the place. You can carry closed containers (plenty of people shop by train on Merseyrail) but not consume it.

 

[Purple Orange]

The Merseyrail approach is how it should be on local services. I.e. fine on long distance services where the TOC sells booze, but on a metro service, why is drinking required? The tube, the Metro, merseyrail, Metrolink etc etc, just ban drinking on board.

 

[alangla]

Indeed. You hear very little criticism of some rugby union/league fans compared to football fans, although granted they are in smaller number compared to travelling football fans.

Except when there’s a game at Murrayfield, obviously. Can’t remember if they’re generally dry trains or not

 

[Mag_seven]

I can't disagree with any of this in the context of Covid. People taking the train to Fife to avoid central belt pub closures is ridiculous. But hidden in the piece the RMT line is:

"A total ban on alcohol is something we've been advocating for a number of years."

Is that really what they mean? If, in two years time, I'm a tourist travelling from Edinburgh to Inverness and I'm told that I can't be served a drink in my big comfy HST First Class seat, how does that make Scotland look?

I'm not saying that this would necessarily be the outcome, but we need be careful that it isn't.

Covid in Scotland: ScotRail 'considering' alcohol ban on trains

The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers said the move would be "problematic" but "welcomed".

www.bbc.co.uk

Proposal has now become reality:

Alcohol ban introduced on Scotland’s rail network

People will not be allowed to drink alcohol on trains or at stations in Scotland from Monday

www.bbc.co.uk

People will not be allowed to drink alcohol on trains or at stations in Scotland from Monday, ScotRail has announced.
It said the temporary policy had been put in place to support public health measures and keep people safe during the Covid pandemic.
ScotRail said the new measures would help to maintain the physical distancing required while travelling.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Proposal has now become reality:

Alcohol ban introduced on Scotland’s rail network

People will not be allowed to drink alcohol on trains or at stations in Scotland from Monday

www.bbc.co.uk

They never enforced the 9pm one anyway and the staff aren't doing checks. What makes Scotrail think it's going to be enforced now.

 

[londonteacher]

If people can't manage a few hours without a drink then maybe they have a problem. Nobody needs to drink on a train, it is nice to be able to.

 

[Wynd]

Kicking back after a long week with a G&T watching the scenery is one of the best parts of rail travel.

Its not a case of need for most of us. Just for some of us.

Its only a problem if you recognise it as a problem.

I'm not drunk, you are!

Guess its going to be back to decanting said in to Highland Spring/Evian/San Pel vessels...

 

[londonteacher]

Kicking back after a long week with a G&T watching the scenery is one of the best parts of rail travel.

Its not a case of need for most of us. Just for some of us.

Its only a problem if you recognise it as a problem.

I'm not drunk, you are!

Guess its going to be back to decanting said in to Highland Spring/Evian/San Pel vessels...

I agree! It's nice being able to have a drink whilst traveling.

But, the way some of the people have been moaning on here you would think it is the end of the world!

 

[Jan Mayen]

Is this just ScotRail trains or all operators in Scotland?

 

[och aye]

Is this just ScotRail trains or all operators in Scotland?

The article just mentions ScotRail.

 

[yorkie]

Is this just ScotRail trains or all operators in Scotland?

Don't worry, you don't have to stop drinking shortly after departure from Berwick or Carlisle on more reasonable operators

 

[CHAPS2034]

It’s hit and miss. TPE sold Cloudwater, who make some fantastic beers. I don’t know if they still do sell it, and even at roughly 3% it was far superior to a can of Stella or Carling! I also quite liked the ale Virgin used to sell - I think it was Bollington, so another small brewery. Not sure what Avanti sell these days.

Virgin's offering was RedWillow Tilting Ale.

RedWillow is based in Macclesfield and run by a chap called Toby Mckenzie. He was an IT director for a company in London and used to commute down there most days on Virgin.

Eventually he decided to quit the rat race and he and his wife set up the micro-brewery producing some cracking beers. He eventually persuaded Virgin to sell his beers and brewed Tilting Ale exclusively for them.

It looks like Avanti dropped them when they took over, but after a bit of a hoo-hah they have reinstated it.

RedWillow’s Tilting Ale returns to Avanti West Coast - Beer Today

A pale ale is being served on Avanti West Coast rail services after it was brought back by popular demand. Tilting Ale, made specially for the train operator by RedWillow Brewery, in Macclesfield, went back on sale this month. It has a loyal fanbase, with many customers asking if it was going to...

beertoday.co.uk

That's interesting. I've only ever bought cups of tea from TPE's trolley so I've never tried it. 3% is generally a bit weak for my taste though. I find 4 - 4.5% about optimum.

Don't be fooled by a beer's strength - a low gravity beer can have much more flavour than a mid range beer of 4-5%, especially when it is brewed by a brewery which knows what it is doing. Cloudwater is one of these that brews cracking if sometime expensive beers.

In regard to drinking on the train, in my experience it is often people getting on the train already worse for wear that are the problem. Some will try to continue to drink with booze brought on board - and sorry, but I've seen this with plenty of football fans - and then can turn from boisterous to downright ugly very quickly. Racegoers are the same after the event and are to be avoided at all costs - I have binned trips to York and Chester when I discovered the races were on.

And try the 2143 MAN - Stoke stopper on Friday / Saturday night! Not often seen alcohol being consumed on this one but many passengers are well tanked up before they get on board. Interestingly the 2201 Crewe stopper does not suffer from this problem.

 

[yorksrob]

Virgin's offering was RedWillow Tilting Ale.

RedWillow is based in Macclesfield and run by a chap called Toby Mckenzie. He was an IT director for a company in London and used to commute down there most days on Virgin.

Eventually he decided to quit the rat race and he and his wife set up the micro-brewery producing some cracking beers. He eventually persuaded Virgin to sell his beers and brewed Tilting Ale exclusively for them.

It looks like Avanti dropped them when they took over, but after a bit of a hoo-hah they have reinstated it.

RedWillow’s Tilting Ale returns to Avanti West Coast - Beer Today

A pale ale is being served on Avanti West Coast rail services after it was brought back by popular demand. Tilting Ale, made specially for the train operator by RedWillow Brewery, in Macclesfield, went back on sale this month. It has a loyal fanbase, with many customers asking if it was going to...

beertoday.co.uk

Don't be fooled by a beer's strength - a low gravity beer can have much more flavour than a mid range beer of 4-5%, especially when it is brewed by a brewery which knows what it is doing. Cloudwater is one of these that brews cracking if sometime expensive beers.

In regard to drinking on the train, in my experience it is often people getting on the train already worse for wear that are the problem. Some will try to continue to drink with booze brought on board - and sorry, but I've seen this with plenty of football fans - and then can turn from boisterous to downright ugly very quickly. Racegoers are the same after the event and are to be avoided at all costs - I have binned trips to York and Chester when I discovered the races were on.

And try the 2143 MAN - Stoke stopper on Friday / Saturday night! Not often seen alcohol being consumed on this one but many passengers are well tanked up before they get on board. Interestingly the 2201 Crewe stopper does not suffer from this problem.

I do like a flavoursome beer it's true, but I must admit I do need a bit of strength to get me merry as well. But not so much to make me nod off

Funny you should mention Red Willow - I went to a music festival once where they were prominent in the beer tent and enjoyed their beers very much. Have always had a pint of Headless or Wreckless if I see it ever since !

 

[eoff]

Does an operating company have the right to introduce any rules they like to restrict passengers when they hold a franchise?

 

[startingaparty]

How is this going to be enforced? Will the BTP be going round wiyh alcochol 'litmus' tests to see whether your drink contains alcohol?

 

[47271]

It won't be enforced any more than the existing 9pm ban is, but it won't do any harm in reducing Covid risk if an individual situation comes down to it. So I'm not against it, it's not like anyone's getting on a train for pleasure at the moment.

My concern is, just as it was when I opened this thread, that this 'temporary' measure becomes a conveniently permanent one after the Covid period to the extent that they won't even sell the stuff on board.

 

[johntea]

Out of interest are bars at UK airports open and/or on flight sale of alcohol still taking place?