ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Esker-pades]

I haven't been studying Journeycheck every day, I've got better things to do, but am I right in thinking that the number of inter city cancellations and 170 to 158 substitutions has dropped right down in the last week to ten days?

I've had nothing cancelled on me since mid January and everything that I've caught has been a 170. No HSTs, refurbished or otherwise, obviously.

I suspect that this has more to do with more 385s entering service and getting diesels off the electric routes than anything else, but HST training must be more under control as well. The Highland Main Line definitely feels a lot less chaotic than it did in the early new year.

Maybe I've just been lucky.

158s are still much more regularly used on the Highland Main Line than before the timetable change.

 

[InvHst]

I haven't been studying Journeycheck every day, I've got better things to do, but am I right in thinking that the number of inter city cancellations and 170 to 158 substitutions has dropped right down in the last week to ten days?

I've had nothing cancelled on me since mid January and everything that I've caught has been a 170. No HSTs, refurbished or otherwise, obviously.

I suspect that this has more to do with more 385s entering service and getting diesels off the electric routes than anything else, but HST training must be more under control as well. The Highland Main Line definitely feels a lot less chaotic than it did in the early new year.

Maybe I've just been lucky.

Cancellations are down yes hsts not in service would hate to know but it will be a big number yes we have had some days when they cancel a handful but majority don't run and are consistently blamed on train faults or maintenance requirements. Is this a known problem they can't run these trains due to them being too old to do numurous days in a row and issues around the units are shocking amount of breakdowns. You only use to see a 158 on the Highland mainline once in a blue moon now they seem to pop up an awful lot and especially on busy services when do we realistically think scotrail are gonna run a full day with all the hst units out in service I'm not holding hope for Mays timetable

 

[fishquinn]

Cancellations are down yes hsts not in service would hate to know but it will be a big number yes we have had some days when they cancel a handful but majority don't run and are consistently blamed on train faults or maintenance requirements. Is this a known problem they can't run these trains due to them being too old to do numurous days in a row and issues around the units are shocking amount of breakdowns. You only use to see a 158 on the Highland mainline once in a blue moon now they seem to pop up an awful lot and especially on busy services when do we realistically think scotrail are gonna run a full day with all the hst units out in service I'm not holding hope for Mays timetable

I have been keeping an eye on journey check frequently to see how the HSTs are running and have seen that there are still quite a few turns that aren't HST. More often than not they're blamed on train faults when the reality is that they have plenty of sets available but haven't trained the crews up. The HSTs are more than capable of providing a service but can only run if there's someone to run them.

 

[matt]

I've been checking between Edinburgh and Inverness most days the last few weeks in anticipation of a trip to Inverness later in the month. Most days there are short forms. The 13:36 which is the train I intend to catch has not been a HST for several weeks. As fishquinn says journey check gives various reasons to the short forms.

 

[Highlandspring]

Is this a known problem they can't run these trains due to them being too old to do numurous days in a row and issues around the units are shocking amount of breakdowns.

My understanding is that availability is lower than expected in large part due to the depots (Haymarket and Inverness) taking a week or more, for whatever reason, to do an exam that other HST operators such as LNER would polish off in a single night.

 

[scotraildriver]

There are issues with wheel turning too. The lathe at Shields can only accommodate 4 vehicles so the HSTs have to be reduced to a 2+2 formation then staff found to move them from Haymarket to Shields and return then reform the sets. The refurb set has been out of use for almost a week to accommodate TPM. That can't go on although some appear to be going to Craigentinny lathe as well.

 

[alangla]

Take it there’s no way to split & recouple them at Shields? Even if it meant putting someone from Eastfield in a taxi to do it?

 

[Highlandspring]

That can't go on although some appear to be going to Craigentinny lathe as well.

A few have indeed gone to Craigy for TPM but I was told they’re being charged handsomely for it and getting a slot at an appropriate time is proving challenging, hency why Shields is the go-to option. Incidentally one of the sets returning from Shields to Haymarket before Christmas was wrong routed at Bellgrove and ended up as the first HST ever at Carntyne!

 

[scotraildriver]

No one at Eastfield is trained on HSTs. Queen St night shift drivers do all the fuelling and shunting.

 

[fishquinn]

I've been checking between Edinburgh and Inverness most days the last few weeks in anticipation of a trip to Inverness later in the month. Most days there are short forms. The 13:36 which is the train I intend to catch has not been a HST for several weeks. As fishquinn says journey check gives various reasons to the short forms.

Indeed, that turn has rarely been HST from what I've seen. I've been recording many HST moves by diagram where possible over the past few weeks and have that turn (starting 0614 Aberdeen-Inverness) hauled most recently on the 29th of January, Saturdays excepted (definitely not 100% confirmed but definitely looked like HST from the gen I had). The 13:36 was hauled both yesterday and last Saturday though so it seems to be a safer turn on a Saturday than a weekday.

 

[scotraildriver]

Incidentally one of the sets returning from Shields to Haymarket before Christmas was wrong routed at Bellgrove and ended up as the first HST ever at Carntyne![/QUOTE]

To be fair that was ROG movement. All HSTs to and from Shields are Queen St drivers now. If any of us made that error it would be cold tea no biscuits for us.

 

[Highlandspring]

To be fair that was ROG movement. All HSTs to and from Shields are Queen St drivers now. If any of us made that error it would be cold tea no biscuits for us.

It was a ScotRail DI...

 

[aar0]

Having consulted two knowledgeable HST engineering people the answer is, yes it is technically possible.

Oo! Presumably not worth the faff in the (hopefully) short time before the overnight shore power is sorted though?

 

[GrimShady]

Interesting to know, but I was actually referring to the little X on the very front of the power cars, like the Virgin 390/221s have the Virgin Badge on the front. Can be seen on the first CGI pics released of the Seven Cities livery.

Do we know if there’s any plans to have HST services advertised as “ScotRail Inter7City” on departure boards, like the 385 services are advertised as “ScotRail Express”? Or if they plan advertise the on-board cafe on the board, like Virgin do with their shop? I personally think that’d be a great idea, since it’s a new feature to ScotRail services. This might prove difficult for the moment with the lack of refurbished sets and the constant substitutions, but can see it working very well when there’s a solid number of refurbished sets in service!

It would make far too much sense meaning that it will never happen. It would be nice to have a return to the named services and be good advertising.

 

[jingsmonty]

There are issues with wheel turning too. The lathe at Shields can only accommodate 4 vehicles so the HSTs have to be reduced to a 2+2 formation then staff found to move them from Haymarket to Shields and return then reform the sets. The refurb set has been out of use for almost a week to accommodate TPM. That can't go on although some appear to be going to Craigentinny lathe as well.

Have heard that Inverness will be having a wheel lathe installed at some point too - & full vehicle lifting jacks.

 

[jingsmonty]

I've been checking between Edinburgh and Inverness most days the last few weeks in anticipation of a trip to Inverness later in the month. Most days there are short forms. The 13:36 which is the train I intend to catch has not been a HST for several weeks. As fishquinn says journey check gives various reasons to the short forms.

I'd think thst a lot of the non-appearance of a booked HST has a lot to do with a lack of trained staff

 

[jingsmonty]

Incidentally one of the sets returning from Shields to Haymarket before Christmas was wrong routed at Bellgrove and ended up as the first HST ever at Carntyne!

To be fair that was ROG movement. All HSTs to and from Shields are Queen St drivers now. If any of us made that error it would be cold tea no biscuits for us.[/QUOTE]

Whoops! The City Union line is a route I never got to drive on during my 'Strathclyde' days - mind you, I get to drive a 'real' train now....

 

[jingsmonty]

158s are still much more regularly used on the Highland Main Line than before the timetable change.

I'd agree with that - it's mainly due to Inverness not having any 170s based there. If there's an issue, the only 'on hand' substitution available tends to be a 158. Happened to me last week - twice. In fairness, one was last Sunday when the Northbound HST struck a tree North of Dunkeld - it was supposed to work back South.

 

[chuff chuff]

I'd think thst a lot of the non-appearance of a booked HST has a lot to do with a lack of trained staff

Viscous circle,trains can't go out not enough trained staff,staff can't get trained because no sets out in service.

 

[jingsmonty]

Viscous circle,trains can't go out not enough trained staff,staff can't get trained because no sets out in service.

Think this is why the decision was taken to reinstate the training trains - although it takes sets away from passenger work, it'll allow the training to be carried out quicker.

 

[chuff chuff]

Think this is why the decision was taken to reinstate the training trains - although it takes sets away from passenger work, it'll allow the training to be carried out quicker.

Maybe but there's guys still struggling to get their hours in.

 

[BRX]

Also given the model railway products showing HST/ Mark 3 in Scotrail lighblue stripe ( Intercity) where did they run?.

They were on the push-pull services between Edinburgh and Glasgow (and also to Aberdeen?)

 

[EE Andy b1]

So how many Inter7City HST refurbished sets are there now in service?

 

[chuff chuff]

So how many Inter7City HST refurbished sets are there now in service?

Two have been received,one at Perth for training the other is currently laid up at Haymarket awaiting repair.

 

[Ben.A.98]

So how many Inter7City HST refurbished sets are there now in service?

Two have been delivered, one is in service though currently stopped for maintenance I belive, and the other is at Perth for training.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Ok right thanks, 2 sets. So the timescale has not improved any. I thought once they realised how bad these Mk3 vehicles were to convert that an updated timescale might have been advertised.
Just looks like they will soldier on until all sets are eventually done or until all confidence in the project is lost and new money found for new build trains.

 

[Ben.A.98]

Ok right thanks, 2 sets. So the timescale has not improved any. I thought once they realised how bad these Mk3 vehicles were to convert that an updated timescale might have been advertised.
Just looks like they will soldier on until all sets are eventually done or until all confidence in the project is lost and new money found for new build trains.

If you read back a few pages of this thread then you may find a few answers, set three is supposedly imminent, with 4 to 7 following not too long after, and sets 8-9 delivered to Wabtec. Wabtec have also announced that production will also be taking place at Kilmarnock as well as Doncaster with all sets by the end of 2019.

 

[Highland37]

Ok right thanks, 2 sets. So the timescale has not improved any. I thought once they realised how bad these Mk3 vehicles were to convert that an updated timescale might have been advertised.
Just looks like they will soldier on until all sets are eventually done or until all confidence in the project is lost and new money found for new build trains.

Agreed. The heads in sand mentality still is strong. Currently Wabtec and Scotail are saying there will be 24 more sets delivered by the end of this year. That's more than two a month.....

 

[nat67]

Indeed, that turn has rarely been HST from what I've seen. I've been recording many HST moves by diagram where possible over the past few weeks and have that turn (starting 0614 Aberdeen-Inverness) hauled most recently on the 29th of January, Saturdays excepted (definitely not 100% confirmed but definitely looked like HST from the gen I had). The 13:36 was hauled both yesterday and last Saturday though so it seems to be a safer turn on a Saturday than a weekday.

I would assume as it's to do with the driver training happening on a weekday so there maybe more drivers at weekends for HST's?

 

[EE Andy b1]

If you read back a few pages of this thread then you may find a few answers, set three is supposedly imminent, with 4 to 7 following not too long after, and sets 8-9 delivered to Wabtec. Wabtec have also announced that production will also be taking place at Kilmarnock as well as Doncaster with all sets by the end of 2019.

So yes I've gone back a few pages, which i should have done, thanks, and caught up a bit.
Great news that Kilmarnock are now getting some of the Mk3 work but this will take time to train people and setup and should have been done right at the start, when you think of the amount of conversions Doncaster were/are trying to do for Scotrail, GWR & XC.

I'm still sceptical though on timescale, and just because Rail magazine were told by Scotrail that Wabtec had said that 24 sets would be delivered by the end of 2019 does not mean they will be. I hope they are though as we all know it affects other TOCs as well.

At the moment it must be about 4-5 months per set, so that's about one vehicle per month. I might be over exaggerating a bit though.

So set 3 is imminent and then sets 4-7 not long after!!! We shall see.