ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.

  1. nat67

    nat67 Member

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    True, once or twice I have had a GWR HST out of Paddington and all lights were off in the Coach and I pressed the light button in and they came on on dim.
     
  2. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    The roads out the back at Inverness are still in bits...have heard there's a full lifting jack & a wheel lathe going to be installed too (that, if it's true, isn't going to happen tomorrow, mind you).

    The 5+2 HST sets will be a big headache in Inverness - platforms 3 & 4 can only take a 4+2.

    I am looking forwards to getting my hands on a refurbished set though!
     
  3. Morayshire

    Morayshire New Member

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    Had the pleasure of the refurbished HST this evening on the 1916 departure from Aberdeen to Edinburgh. Very comfortable and I did enjoy the experience.

    I have also noticed that the classic sets seem to be appearing on the 1837 departure from Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street more often as well.
     
  4. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    I have still not managed to have a trip on the refurbished set yet - I must try & track one down (or wait for one to appear on the HML....)
     
  5. matt

    matt Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Was there any HSTs to between Edinburgh and Inverness today as they were no short forms being reported?
     
  6. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    Not sure about Northbound, but the 0944 & 1255 were HSTs...probably means the 1739 (I think) Edinburgh - Inverness was an HST, as it's the return working of the 1255.

    Most welcome to see the booked HST sets appearing...maybe a sign that things might actually be improving?
     
  7. chuff chuff

    chuff chuff Member

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    Think the 17:39 was caped from Edinburgh but started at Perth but with what I don't know. Think it was due to the broken rail between Dundee and Aberdeen.
     
  8. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    It started with a 170. The original cancellation from Edinburgh was due to power problems on 43151 (set HA02) which caused the booked driver to be out of position.
     
  9. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    That's a shame, almost a full HST service on the HML...maybe one day!
     
  10. Maxfly

    Maxfly Member

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    There was a job advertised for a 'Mobile' Wheel lathe operator in Inverness recently....I initially assumed by the wording that the lathe itself was mobile but was it actually the operator who would travel to Lathes??

    *Edit* I am sure it said 'operator for mobile wheel lathe'
     
  11. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    Not 100% sure what is meant by that myself (not my area of expertise....) - maybe it just refers to the method of actually operating the lathe (e.g. moving the lathe under the wheel)?

    If there's anyone who works in fleet/maintenance reading, they'd know a lot more about this!
     
  12. mr-magoo

    mr-magoo New Member

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  13. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    That's all well and good, but you have to be able to lift the train in the air! I suppose a wheel lathe shed with 4 jacks could accommodate one vehicle, & might be a lot cheaper than a lathe recessed into a pit, but how often does just one vehicle in a set need tyre turning? (genuine question.)
     
  14. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    I think (although if there's someone who knows better, please feel free to correct me....) that the jacks can lift an entire set. Maybe not.
     
  15. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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  16. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    I didn't realise that Inverness had a shed the length of a train (and that many jacks,) sorry. Most wheel lathes do one axle at a time, with the vehicle being moved over the lathe. I looked at the video and imagined this beast cutting out all the costs of the pit and foundations for the machine and doing the job by running along the shed rails, but still working on one vehicle in a specialised shed. I know that it's now normal to lift a whole train at once, e.g. for brake-block changes or some-such job, but I didn't think that investment would be justified for anywhere other than a fleet headquarters.
    Incidentally, seeing as we now expect to see whole train-sets lifted and maintained at the same time, why are articulated sets not more in fashion now? (or is that a question for a new thread?)
     
  17. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    Finally I have managed to get a Scotrail HST. It's a classic set.

    People do care about engine noise and the mk3 is much better than the 170 in this respect.

    Whoever decided on the bright lights needs shot. Very unpleasant.

    Overall, a better train than the 170 and the refurbishment will improve it further.

    There appears to be less creaking from the coaches than a LNER set also.
     
  18. Thunderer

    Thunderer Member

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    43003 is indeed the original partner of 43002 as 253001. It was the 1st production HST set for the WR and entered service in 1976. I was saddened when GWR didn't retain this power car along with 43002 for use on their Castle short formed sets (being the first two power cars on the WR, they should have had celebrity status) but no one in control there seemed to see it the same way? Even 43002 is destined for York Museum this year to become a static exhibit. Sad times for us on the WR. We are lumbered with the dreadful IET for at least the next 27 years, enjoy the HST's up there in Scotland, as you have now got a classic, no nonsense, tried and tested proper Inter-City train. They may be old, but they are still the best train to run on our Network since their introduction 43 years ago. Im just glad they have a new lease of life up there and were not sent to the cutters torch.
     
  19. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    Yes, there seems to have been a massive upswing in their use today. 1736 Edinburgh-Aberdeen, 1739 Edinburgh-Inverness and 1725 Inverness-Queen Street were all HSTs. They all made it to their destinations without breaking down, although the Aberdeen train lost more and more time and finally arrived 25 minutes late.

    The set on the Edinburgh-Inverness train was okay in an old school First Great Western okay sort of way. It certainly gobbled up the Friday evening crowds - the TGS was no more than a third full after we left Haymarket, there would've been people standing everywhere if it had been a 170, although only having one publically available door might have helped keep the masses away from the front of the train.

    There's no need for me to comment on the interior, it was blindingly brightly lit and over crammed with seats as ever - I heard another passenger ask his mate if he'd like some quick dental work while they could see what they were doing - but worst of all it rolled in empty from Haymarket depot full of unpicked litter. And I mean really full, like two trips worth.

    Come on guys, you want us and Transport Scotland to take you seriously and you can't even remove the coffee cups between journeys. The depots aren't ready, the sidings aren't ready, the trains aren't ready, the staff aren't trained, clearly all complicated stuff beyond the wit of Abellio, but surely it's no more difficult to remove the rubbish from an HST than any other type of train?
     
  20. Thunderer

    Thunderer Member

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    Its sad to hear that the refurbishment of the HST's is so far behind schedule. I hope people don't blame the HST's themselves when things go wrong? The power car refurb is not a full spec refurb either like the LNER and XC power cars received, its being done on the cheap and with a 40 year old plus train, there could lie future problems with cutting corners. I've had 40 years of these great trains on the WR since their introduction and when they are maintained well and looked after, there is no better Inter-City train in the land, old or new. I hope WABTEC pull their fingers out for you guys up there and get the full contingent of refurbished sets running as soon as possible, but I fear that wish may be a touch optamistic. When they finally do deliver them all and they bed in (drivers and maintenance staff fully get used to them) I think the people of Scotland will be delighted with them. Meanwhile, back at GWR, we have the IET, now there is a train that is really worth moaning about ha! They are awful.
     
  21. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    Yes that was my experience too. The train was full of rubbish and very clearly not been cleaned. It's not Abellio that put the rubbish there though. They should take out some seats and put in a recycling station in each carriage.

    I don't think "blame" comes into it when we are talking about a machine. If a machine stops working, attribute the fault to it. People will only be delighted with them if they deliver a better service than the trains that proceeded them. Given that is sometime a 158 it doesn't seem too hard a challenge but I think they won't be close on the reliability of the 170. I'd just electrify though...
     
  22. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    Good point on giving more space to rubbish collection and recycling. Part of the problem tonight was that the bins were already rammed, so it was inevitable that litter would be everywhere. But ever bigger bins that never get emptied will get the same result.

    Anyway, my observation on the litter was more that the service comes in empty from Haymarket properly cleaned when it's a 170. The disorganised state of preparation seemed symbolic of the general malaise around the HST project.
     
  23. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    I'm glad that 43002 will be saved, at least - very great pity that it won't be in working order. How good would it be to have 43002/003 as preserved set 253001, (in original, or near original condition) running about as a 125mph heritage/charter train! You never know, maybe the 125group may get their hands on 43002 one day (they've done a cracking job with the surviving prototype PC, 41001)...

    Totally agree that I'd rather have an HST over an IET - have seen a couple of IETs up in Inverness & what I saw of the interiors looked deeply unimpressive. That's assuming they can even make it up the hills.....

    As one of my colleages said to me: we are getting to drive a REAL train, not a glorified bus! It's a real privelege to actually get to drive them (& a historic PC in 43003, no less!). As the recent Channel 5 documentary on HSTs put it: they still set the standard by which all modern trains are judged against. That sums them up pretty well.
     
  24. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    That's harsh. I do get your point about the litter, but I don't think it's because it's an HST!
     
  25. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    GWRs loss is Scotrail's (eventual) gain....
     
  26. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    They are running a business, however much we may not like it, and decisions are made for sound engineering reasons.
     
  27. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Very unlikely, I would have thought, when there will be other production power cars going spare that they can acquire themselves, rather than looking after someone else's vehicle.

    Before anyone mentions 41001, that was 6 years ago (when there were no production power cars to be had) and it was the right thing to do at that time. 43002 is a very different situation.
     
  28. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    What I'm saying is that it felt like it hadn't occurred to anyone to plan a procedure to clean a new train type - and it could be any train, nothing to do with it being an HST.

    And I wouldn't be thinking that if other aspects of the project weren't looking so poorly organised.
     
  29. mcmad

    mcmad Member

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    Not sure its limited to HST's. The normal train home for me comes empty to Queen St direct from Haymarket and (short forms permitting) is a 170. Last passenger duty was an Inverness-Edinburgh run going on the reservations still up and is always full of litter. The Queen St cleaning crew do occasionally do a quick run through of the tables but are usually too busy with the E&G services.
     
  30. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    They are both 'historic' power cars... I wasn't being entirely serious, to be honest! I know the 125 group (as I'm a member myself) have an aim of preserving an entire set (with Valenta engines in the power cars)... Plenty of other choices for 'historic' power cars, such as 43302 (formerly 43102) & 43159, which set the world speed record for a diesel train on 01/11/87. That would be a fantastic pairing on a preserved set!

    Anyway, going off topic slightly - I hope 43003 soldiers on in Scotland for a good few Years yet - it deserves preserving too. I never thought I'd get to drive a power car from the very 1st production set - that appeals to my 'inner geek'! :D

    I noticed the 0944 Inverness - Edinburgh went with its booked HST today. Any non-substitutions are most welcome!
     

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