ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.

  1. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    Actually, that's a very good point - I suspect you're right about that! Not so much of an issue in Inverness, as the staff up here are used to cleaning out the LNER HST that stables overnight
     
  2. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    True, but at least GWR have shown a bit of 'personality' in repainting 43002 into original blue/yellow livery & 43185 into 'INTERCITY' Swallow livery - they look great, even if they do break up the 'corporate' image.

    I can't imagine Scotrail doing likewise - a power car in original Scotrail livery would be good (perhaps for the anniversary of Scotrail being created as a brand) would be great, but will never happen.
     
  3. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    I have no idea why Scotrail are, as other posters have alluded to, using the ex GWR sets with all the lights on.

    The half light setting is more than sufficient.

    Interestingly enough the 41 first class vehicles or 46 composite vehicles (the latter I don't think Scotrail have) have dimmer lighting and so even though all lights are on creates a nicer environment.
     
  4. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    ScotRail don’t have any composites. The composites are ex-TF which might explain the lighting - does anyone know when they were modified (or indeed if they were like that from refurb)?
     
  5. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    Modified when the First Class was refurbished in to the GWR interior, which would have been about the time they were reduced from 2 full First Class carriages to 1.
     
  6. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    Indeed - I'd have said we're talking 5-6 years ago. This predated the rebranding from FGW to GWR but the headrests and interior walls came suspiciously with GWR on it, and was a sign of things to come. Don't think any Composite vehicles ever received the GWR livery externally either.
     
  7. SC43090

    SC43090 Member

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    I assume that Scotrail are getting on top of crew training there staff on classic HST's by what other posters seem to indicating that services to Aberdeen & Inverness Edinburgh & Glasgow seem to be completing there journeys over the last week...... Also that Scotrail as dispenced with one of its training sets in the last week that indicates to me that things are getting better...... If anybody can confirm what iv'e posted above that would be fantastic....

    SC 43090
     
  8. jimm

    jimm Established Member

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    The composites were created in 2014 at the same time as former buffet cars were turned into extra standard class trailers.
     
  9. nat67

    nat67 Member

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    The training set I think if you were referring to was. The first refurbished set which was out of service for repair was back out last week not a training set.
     
  10. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    It's probably partly due to a lack of knowledge - as a driver, I didn't know there was a half light setting on the coaches! Not sure if the Conductors have been briefed on this either
     
  11. chuff chuff

    chuff chuff Member

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    Me either and no reason why we would and I've never heard guards mention it.
     
  12. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    I'm quite impressed with my guess on timing there!

    @jingsmonty - it's just a dial switch in the vestibule opposite the luggage rack in the control end of the coach. Dim (half lights) for as long as I've been travelling frequently on FGW/GWR HSTs has been the default.
     
  13. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    Handy to know, cheers!
     
  14. jimm

    jimm Established Member

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    The picture taken by hassanhc linked to below shows how the lighting should look in most ex-GW standard class stock on the 'dim' setting.

    As CC72100 says this should be regarded as the normal setting, and is how HSTs are turned out by GWR depots and train presentation teams. People sometimes inadvertently produce the full floodlighting effect by leaning on the switches in the vestibules or catching them with bits of luggage, but train managers just flick the switch back to sort this out.

    I think this set-up resulted when the lights were changed during the 'refresh' programme in the mid-2000s. The more recent batches of converted coaches got a 'warmer' type of light but those also seemed to operate in traffic on GWR with only half the panels illuminated.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/97628863@N06/14935270951
     
    Last edited: 9 Feb 2019
  15. BRX

    BRX Established Member

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    Some people seem completely oblivious to lighting quality (to my constant irritation). Perhaps whoever at Scotrail is in charge of the training briefings for the HST stock is one of those people.

    Hopefully it'll be a short term thing (or passengers will learn where the switch is).
     
  16. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    The root cause was FGW making an utter mess of the spec for that refurb - the combination of the over-bright lighting and over-tinted windows was a massive mistake. GNER and MML managed to get their replacement lighting right, thankfully.
     
  17. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    Oh hell, don't start me on the windows, I forgot about that when I posted last night. They never registered with me to the same extent on GWR.

    So it's dark outside. The interior is lit to operating theatre standards. So why not put an ultra reflective coating on the inside of the windows so that all the passenger can see is their own face when they look about? I genuinely had precious little clue where I was unless I peered out with my hands round my head, and this was in fully lit stations.

    Funny that this famously p***poor interior was FGW's when GWR is regarded as the victim at the hands of the DfT with the insides of the IETs.

    Anyway, I'm moaning about a temporary state of affairs on Scotrail, but I doubt that the refurbs are doing anything about those windows.
     
  18. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    You can't say things like that, the Great Western Taliban will be along shortly to tell you where you have gone wrong!
    ;)
     
  19. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    He he, let's see. If they can help me see Kirkcaldy station nameboard on a dark February evening then I'll be happy to take their advice!

    To be fair, FGW did make a good job of HST First Class, which the DfT has now gone on to ruin on the IETs.
     
    Last edited: 9 Feb 2019
  20. Rail Blues

    Rail Blues Member

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    Given the utter shambles Scotrail are overseeing, playing fantasy liveries to satisfy paint geeks, unsurprisingly doesn't figure on their to do list.
     
  21. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    I never said it did. Nobody's suggesting this as a 'must do'.
     
  22. nat67

    nat67 Member

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    ScotRail shouldn't have to change any livery as you say. ScotRail never had any original HST livery so it fits them as good now as it would then.
     
  23. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    Well, if I can be permitted to be totally pedantic before anyone else comes along and does it, HSTs were allocated to the Scottish Region of BR in the 1970s and 1980s. So Scottish (Region) HSTs did carry original livery.

    Some even operated internal Scottish services at the beginning and end of each day, and when they weren't racing to and from King's Cross obviously!
     
  24. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Which explains the old HST stop boards at Queens Street Station.
     
  25. SC43090

    SC43090 Member

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    I agree with what you say.... Iv'e had HST's from Edinburgh - Glasgow QS - Edinburgh in early 1980's on internal early morning / late evening services......

    SC 43090
     
  26. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    I remember that too. Funny how things come back around again....Chris Green (GM of BR Scottish region...& creator of 'ScotRail' as a brand) proposed cascaded HSTs for internal Scottish services back in 1984...

    You can't keep a good train down!
     
  27. Goldromans

    Goldromans Member

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    Are the lighting and window issues being addressed in the refurbishment?
     
  28. nat67

    nat67 Member

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    All I'm implying is about the livery that all the froth buckets are banging on about. I'm suggesting that SR in the 80's didn't run internal HST services.

    The new livery is very good the current XC is the overall best in my opinion. The new ScotRail livery as may been mentioned before, especially on the front reminds me of the FGW livery a little bit.
     
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The lighting is.
     
  30. Thunderer

    Thunderer Member

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    Indeed the Railway is a business, but unfortunately there are very few TRUE Railwaymen left. That experience went decades ago.
     

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