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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

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jingsmonty

jingsmonty

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scotraildriver said:
It was a hot axle box.
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InvHst said:
Sooner the hsts are here the better tbh very worrying news that the 2040 Edinburgh to Perth this evening broke down at markinch and was emergency evacuated
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Pretty unusual failure - not one I've ever had. Especially on a 170.

I'm not sure an HST would have ever been booked to work this service anyway, even if we had the full fleet - it was a local service.
 
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InvHst

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Sorry didn't mean to deviate from topic on hand anyway I'm off to aberdeen today for another classic hst experience as the hml hasn't got one running today.
 
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Northhighland

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jingsmonty said:
Sounds right. It's a short term pain, but it's the right thing to do
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You are of course correct. The right thing is to get the training done as quickly as possible. However it seems to be taking a very long time, it is also reprehensible that Scotrail didn't have this better planned. They knew years ago when the 170's were off lease and were aware of the Wabtec issues the plan could and should have been a lot better than it is.
 
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Highland37

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That is of course true but Scotrail are in the impossible position of being unable to plan as the Wabtec delays are constantly changing. Who seriously believes them that all sets will be delivered by the end of this year?

Should Scotrail take this at face value and roster people based on this information or should they make other arrangements, if so, what? I can't see how they can plan ahead given the constantly changing delivery of the HSTs.

That said, Scotrail have been truly awful at planning.
 
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Northhighland

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Highland37 said:
That is of course true but Scotrail are in the impossible position of being unable to plan as the Wabtec delays are constantly changing. Who seriously believes them that all sets will be delivered by the end of this year?

Should Scotrail take this at face value and roster people based on this information or should they make other arrangements, if so, what? I can't see how they can plan ahead given the constantly changing delivery of the HSTs.

That said, Scotrail have been truly awful at planning.
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Conflating two separate issues. the issue around providing trains with enough seats and trained staff to operate them has been an issue since the decision was made to go with the HST's. The date the 170's left Scotland was well known. So they should have had enough staff trained to deliver a service using either Refurbed or Classis HST's. Either way training could and should have been planned and delivered.

The Wabtec situation is annoying, we have to wait and see what they deliver and when. Either way the service has to be delivered by HST's classic or refurbed.
 
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IanXC

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jingsmonty said:
Pretty unusual failure - not one I've ever had. Especially on a 170.

I'm not sure an HST would have ever been booked to work this service anyway, even if we had the full fleet - it was a local service.
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Isn't hot axle boxes a specific issue 170s are prone to and receive extra checks for?
 
Highlandspring

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jingsmonty said:
Pretty unusual failure - not one I've ever had. Especially on a 170.
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It's maybe the 4th or 5th ScotRail 170 hot axle in the last 10 years. That's why they have the fitters checking bearing temperatures with infrared contactless thermometers at terminal stations.
 
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SC43090

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DannyMich2018 said:
The first unrefurbished HST's arrived in Scotland way back in November 2017!! I'm sure if Scotrail was properly organised (staffed) training would have finished some time ago and we wouldn't have substitutions or cancellations. Let's not even mention Wabtec here..... BR took just six years to built nearly 200 power cars and 700+ coaches, Wabtec have took more than two years to just refurbish/rebuild just 5 sets so far....
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The first unreburished set arrived on 1st September 2017....... If i remember correctly they only trained drivers on the HST when they got the first set as it would be a waste of time doing guards / conductors as they would be expecting there first refurbished set..... But as we know the first set didn't arrive until 2018......... Sure there might be somebody on here can correct me if i'm wrong in what iv'e put....

SC 434090
 
jingsmonty

jingsmonty

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SC43090 said:
The first unreburished set arrived on 1st September 2017....... If i remember correctly they only trained drivers on the HST when they got the first set as it would be a waste of time doing guards / conductors as they would be expecting there first refurbished set..... But as we know the first set didn't arrive until 2018......... Sure there might be somebody on here can correct me if i'm wrong in what iv'e put....

SC 434090
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I'd guess you were correct - I was trained back in June 2018 as a driver, but the Guards training didn't start until much later. The assumption that Scotrail were expecting more refurbished sets & not having to use 'classic' sets makes sense.
 
jingsmonty

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Northhighland said:
Conflating two separate issues. the issue around providing trains with enough seats and trained staff to operate them has been an issue since the decision was made to go with the HST's. The date the 170's left Scotland was well known. So they should have had enough staff trained to deliver a service using either Refurbed or Classis HST's. Either way training could and should have been planned and delivered.

The Wabtec situation is annoying, we have to wait and see what they deliver and when. Either way the service has to be delivered by HST's classic or refurbed.
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That's a pretty accurate summary of the current situation. Heard that 3rd refurbished set expected in aporox 2 Weeks & will be heading North to Inverness for training.
 
scotrail170407

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I am booked on the 13:36 EDB - INV as far as Perth tomorrow, does anyone know what the chances are of this service actually running as an HST..
 
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Goldromans

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jingsmonty said:
That's a pretty accurate summary of the current situation. Heard that 3rd refurbished set expected in aporox 2 Weeks & will be heading North to Inverness for training.
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Does this mean the 3rd will set replace the current training set based at Inverness, do know know?
 
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route:oxford

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What really doesn't make sense is that once, an issue was identified with the training, why didn't Scotrail do an training deal with LNER and XC?

They could have had drivers and guards zipping up and down between Edinburgh and Newcastle all day?

If LNER couldn't cope, GWR are still running some heritage stock, nip down to London on the plane, HEx it to Paddington, go back and forth between Reading and London for a wee shot, then fly back for tea. A working trip to London is what hundreds of people do every single day.
 
47271

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SC43090 said:
The first unreburished set arrived on 1st September 2017....... If i remember correctly they only trained drivers on the HST when they got the first set as it would be a waste of time doing guards / conductors as they would be expecting there first refurbished set..... But as we know the first set didn't arrive until 2018......... Sure there might be somebody on here can correct me if i'm wrong in what iv'e put....

SC 434090
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Yes, the first set arrived at Waverley on the afternoon of 1 September 2017. I know because I was there, albeit coincidentally. I wasn't sure why there were lots of Scotrail suits with name badges striding around, I asked one of the group and they pointed towards P8, and it arrived around 15 minutes later.

Staying off topic on the hot axle box on the 2040 Edinburgh-Perth service, isn't that train more usually a 158, it always has been when I've used it?
 
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Northhighland

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jingsmonty said:
I'd guess you were correct - I was trained back in June 2018 as a driver, but the Guards training didn't start until much later. The assumption that Scotrail were expecting more refurbished sets & not having to use 'classic' sets makes sense.
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It is pretty standard on most contracts for the client to do some inspection as the work progresses. I would assume in the case of the HST’s given the problems there would have been regular interaction with the client to work out what was going to be done to fix the issues found.

Therefore they would have or should have known the refurb’s were t going to happen on time so classics were needed.

This could and should have been planned.
 
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alangla

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jingsmonty said:
Pretty unusual failure - not one I've ever had. Especially on a 170.

I'm not sure an HST would have ever been booked to work this service anyway, even if we had the full fleet - it was a local service.
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Posts on scot-rail indicate that an HST turned up on 2N48 from Perth to Queen Street this morning (timing load class 158) - looks like it lost 20 mins through being over time at stations- http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G88851/2019/02/15/advanced
 
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InvHst

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alangla said:
Posts on scot-rail indicate that an HST turned up on 2N48 from Perth to Queen Street this morning (timing load class 158) - looks like it lost 20 mins through being over time at stations- http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G88851/2019/02/15/advanced
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Voyager lad said:
Indeed a HST did show up on this service, quite a surprise to passengers used to 158s and 170s!
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Aye all due to fact that the 170 was the one involved in last night's issue. So they drafted a hst in
 
jingsmonty

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route:oxford said:
What really doesn't make sense is that once, an issue was identified with the training, why didn't Scotrail do an training deal with LNER and XC?

They could have had drivers and guards zipping up and down between Edinburgh and Newcastle all day?

If LNER couldn't cope, GWR are still running some heritage stock, nip down to London on the plane, HEx it to Paddington, go back and forth between Reading and London for a wee shot, then fly back for tea. A working trip to London is what hundreds of people do every single day.
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Because we don't sign any of the routes (Drivers or Guards). Whilst Drivers could learn the traction, the experience (without the routes) wouldn't be that relevant - the braking force is different on a 4/5+2 HST to a full length rake (not sure how many coaches XC). Personally, I'd have LOVED to have had a shot of an HST on the ECML at 125mph!

Guards training would have been irrelevant on the ECML - the training would have been needed to be on the routes that they sign for (platform/signal sighting, etc)
 
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Highland37

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jingsmonty said:
That's a pretty accurate summary of the current situation. Heard that 3rd refurbished set expected in aporox 2 Weeks & will be heading North to Inverness for training.
Click to expand...

Good to hear. That means roughly the end of this month beginning of March. If true, it would leave 43 weeks in the year for 23 sets to be delivered. That would mean a set roughly every two weeks...
 
jingsmonty

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Highland37 said:
Good to hear. That means roughly the end of this month beginning of March. If true, it would leave 43 weeks in the year for 23 sets to be delivered. That would mean a set roughly every two weeks...
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We can but hope... Sets 4-10 currently at Wabtec as well.
 
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Northhighland

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jingsmonty said:
I'd guess you were correct - I was trained back in June 2018 as a driver, but the Guards training didn't start until much later. The assumption that Scotrail were expecting more refurbished sets & not having to use 'classic' sets makes sense.
Click to expand...

Surely very little difference between driving a refurbed set and a classic set?
 
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