ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[hexagon789]

Just noticed two foreign women miss their stop because they didn’t know how to open the doors on the Classic.
As the tourist season gets into full swing I can see this becoming a bit of an issue.

There are plenty of trains on the continent with manually-opened doors, so it's not exactly a solely UK-thing these days.

 

[robk23oxf]

Just noticed two foreign women miss their stop because they didn’t know how to open the doors on the Classic.
As the tourist season gets into full swing I can see this becoming a bit of an issue.

I had to let someone out of a slam-door GWR set the other day as he didn't know how to open the door.

 

[nat67]

I had to let someone out of a slam-door GWR set the other day as he didn't know how to open the door.

I have to do that all the time Chief. Even on pres lines for 'normals'.

 

[alangla]

There are plenty of trains on the continent with manually-opened doors, so it's not exactly a solely UK-thing these days.

But they probably have a visible handle on the inside. Let’s be honest, the last thing you’d expect would be to have to open the window and hang out to open the door, especially if you’re used to power door stock which very rarely has an opening door window.

 

[hexagon789]

But they probably have a visible handle on the inside. Let’s be honest, the last thing you’d expect would be to have to open the window and hang out to open the door, especially if you’re used to power door stock which very rarely has an opening door window.

I will accept that, but it's always signposted how you open the doors. In most cases quite clearly at that, right above the door.

 

[najaB]

I will accept that, but it's always signposted how you open the doors. In most cases quite clearly at that, right above the door.

What? You mean I have look outside my bubble? What if I miss an Instagram notification?

 

[alangla]

I will accept that, but it's always signposted how you open the doors. In most cases quite clearly at that, right above the door.

Yes, but in which languages? Just English or are sufficient pictograms used to work out how it operates?

 

[hexagon789]

What? You mean I have look outside my bubble? What if I miss an Instagram notification?

Well it's that or miss your stop. It's their choice!

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, but in which languages? Just English?

Yes. I've never even come across Gaelic in a Scottish-based train yet, but they do have pictogram signs.

I'm sure some trains had/have French and German on the emergency signage but I can't think which.

 

[43096]

Yes. I've never even come across Gaelic in a Scottish-based train yet, but they do have pictogram signs.

I'm sure some trains had/have French and German on the emergency signage but I can't think which.

One (at least) of the airport services, I believe (Gatwick/Heathrow/Stansted).

 

[hexagon789]

One (at least) of the airport services, I believe (Gatwick/Heathrow/Stansted).

I've not been on those, must be something else. Possibly the Mk3 sleepers?

 

[kidman123]

Saw a classic go through Edinburgh gateway at around 1638 had a refurb PC 4 classic carriages and a classic pc trailing I might be assume that was an Aberdeen service

 

[Cashew]

Still no word when set 4 will be ready ?.

 

[47271]

I've not been on those, must be something else. Possibly the Mk3 sleepers?

Yes, sleepers have fire safety notices in English, French and German.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

Saw a classic go through Edinburgh gateway at around 1638 had a refurb PC 4 classic carriages and a classic pc trailing I might be assume that was an Aberdeen service

Yup, coaches not near the top of the classic pile, and let's not mention that unrefurbed rear PowerCar

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, sleepers have fire safety notices in English, French and German.

Thank you for confirming my memory wasn't totally wrong!

 

[ld0595]

Still no word when set 4 will be ready ?.

"Imminently"

 

[BRX]

I will accept that, but it's always signposted how you open the doors. In most cases quite clearly at that, right above the door.

If you're in a panic because you've only got seconds to work out how to open the door before it's too late, and the method of door opening is completely un-intuitive to anyone used to power doors, I think it's quite understandable that you might not look at the notices. You have probably got to the point of realising it's a manual door and are moving on to a reasonable assumption that there will be a handle somewhere on it. So you might be desperately searching the door itself for a handle rather than looking at signs above it.

 

[hexagon789]

"Imminently"

Well it's better than "soon" I guess

 

[hexagon789]

If you're in a panic because you've only got seconds to work out how to open the door before it's too late, and the method of door opening is completely un-intuitive to anyone used to power doors, I think it's quite understandable that you might not look at the notices. You have probably got to the point of realising it's a manual door and are moving on to a reasonable assumption that there will be a handle somewhere on it. So you might be desperately searching the door itself for a handle rather than looking at signs above it.

Isn't there an emergency release of some description? Or am I thinking Mk3 sleepers or even something else?

I believe the Mk2ds had internal handles from new but they were plated over after am accident where someone fell from a train at speed.

Perhaps if they had Central Door Locking back then, the Mk3s would've been built with internal handles.

 

[alangla]

Perhaps if they had Central Door Locking back then, the Mk3s would've been built with internal handles.

Given that equivalent stock on the continent was being built with power doors (SNCF Corail, NS Koploper etc) and BR had been using power door EMUs for years, the decision to fit slam doors to the Mk3s seems more than a little odd.

 

[Rail Blues]

Given that equivalent stock on the continent was being built with power doors (SNCF Corail, NS Koploper etc) and BR had been using power door EMUs for years, the decision to fit slam doors to the Mk3s seems more than a little odd.

Yes, was cost the rationale? Sleek futuristic looking HSTs heralding the 'age of the train' and you exit them by leaning out and turning a brass handle. Seems incongruous.

 

[hexagon789]

Given that equivalent stock on the continent was being built with power doors (SNCF Corail, NS Koploper etc) and BR had been using power door EMUs for years, the decision to fit slam doors to the Mk3s seems more than a little odd.

I know that when they were being designed both power doors and retention toilets were available. Yet BR chose neither.

The Irish Mk3s were fitted with electric plug-doors from new, which proves it was very doable.

 

[Highlandspring]

Perhaps if they had Central Door Locking back then, the Mk3s would've been built with internal handles.

Mk3 coaches were built with internal door handles.

 

[Cashew]

"Imminently" [/QUOTE

"Imminently"

Heard that one before, set 3 was also imminent for a couple of weeks.

 

[hexagon789]

Mk3 coaches were built with internal door handles.

Interesting. I knew Mk2ds were bit they were removed early on. I assumed Mk3s never received them.

Presumably removed for much the same reasons, that in the pre-CDL era a passenger could all too easily open the door at speed and fall out?

 

[Rail Blues]

know that when they were being designed both power doors and retention toilets were available. Yet BR chose neither

And imagine the faff and disruption that we'd have been spared if they had been.

 

[hexagon789]

And imagine the faff and disruption that we'd have been spared if they had been.

Indeed, the only reason I can think of why they decided against it was cost.

Though Irish Rail seemed to feel it was worthwhile paying for power doors, while BR didn't which I still don't understand, but I guess history is like that - one can never fully comprehend and understand everything really.

 

[najaB]

Indeed, the only reason I can think of why they decided against it was cost.

Don't forget (and this brings things slightly closer to topic), the HST was a stop-gap project that was intended to bridge the gap until 'proper' trains were introduced in the 1980s. At which time they would be relegated to second-line service doing things like Scottish internal routes.

 

[hexagon789]

Don't forget (and this brings things slightly closer to topic), the HST was a stop-gap project that was intended to bridge the gap until 'proper' trains were introduced in the 1980s. At which time they would be relegated to second-line service doing things like Scottish internal routes.

With the planned introduction of the APT.

Even so, power doors and retention tanks were available and the APT got both.

Surely even on the basis of near relegation it would've still been worthwhile fitting both features to the Mk3 stock.