ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[hexagon789]

Another HST and 4 coaches went past down to Kilmarnock about 10 minutes ago

Brilliant, we may get another refurb...eventually

Though I think Kilmarnock is just doing trailers.

 

[43096]

Brilliant, we may get another refurb...eventually

Though I think Kilmarnock is just doing trailers.

I don’t think the vehicles that have gone to Kilmarnock today are part of the long term fleet - they certainly weren’t. The TGS that went definitely isn’t. So may be there for something else?

 

[JLUK144]

I don’t think the vehicles that have gone to Kilmarnock today are part of the long term fleet - they certainly weren’t. The TGS that went definitely isn’t. So may be there for something else?

I can confirm that the two power cars were in Scotrail Inter7City livery and the four Mk3s were in the old FGW Dynamic Lines livery. That would suggest to me that the set I saw was part of Scotrail's collection of Mk3s and HSTs. It came from some place in Perth so I wonder how that might affect things?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00019/2019/05/24/advanced

 

[hexagon789]

I don’t think the vehicles that have gone to Kilmarnock today are part of the long term fleet - they certainly weren’t. The TGS that went definitely isn’t. So may be there for something else?

Are they able to do repairs on the Classic fleet as well? That's all that springs to mind.

 

[BRX]

Another HST and 4 coaches went past down to Kilmarnock about 10 minutes ago

I've noticed a few people referring to the power cars as 'HSTs' recently. An HST is the whole train - 2 power cars plus coaches. The power cars are power cars, or class 43s, as you prefer.

 

[jingsmonty]

I've noticed a few people referring to the power cars as 'HSTs' recently. An HST is the whole train - 2 power cars plus coaches. The power cars are power cars, or class 43s, as you prefer.

Correct! There's a bit of confusion with this internally too, conversations such as 'Set HA0× has a traction motor issue'. It's not the set, it's the power car! I've always thought that the set nos equate to the trailer rakes only.

I've been on nightshift & been told that set HA×× is on a certain job - I've no way of easily knowing which set is which without the Power Car nos....

 

[Highlandspring]

Correct! There's a bit of confusion with this internally too, conversations such as 'Set HA0× has a traction motor issue'. It's not the set, it's the power car! I've always thought that the set nos equate to the trailer rakes only.

You’re right in that only the trailers are given semi-permanent set for maintenance purposes. Powercars are independent and aren’t associated with the set number. As well as the Genius system there’s a big whiteboard on the wall in Control to keep track of all the set formations and what powercars are on them, which is updated by the Maintenance Controllers. However to most folk in ScotRail Control everything is called a ‘unit’ so you end up with nonsense like “Unit HA04 engine out.” etc. I did hear one person describe a powercar as “Not the normal carriage but the one with the engine in” which made me smile. I could tell you a funny story about attempting to turn a pair of powercars this week but I’d better not...

 

[alangla]

I could tell you a funny story about attempting to turn a pair of powercars this week but I’d better not...

Does this involve a triangle and route knowledge only covering two sides of it or something similar?

 

[Highlandspring]

Does this involve a triangle and route knowledge only covering two sides of it or something similar?

No but I know what you’re thinking of.

 

[BRX]

Does it involve running the power cars around to the opposite ends of the train to realise that this does not quite work?

 

[hexagon789]

Does it involve running the power cars around to the opposite ends of the train to realise that this does not quite work?

I was thinking something like this too.

 

[jingsmonty]

You’re right in that only the trailers are given semi-permanent set for maintenance purposes. Powercars are independent and aren’t associated with the set number. As well as the Genius system there’s a big whiteboard on the wall in Control to keep track of all the set formations and what powercars are on them, which is updated by the Maintenance Controllers. However to most folk in ScotRail Control everything is called a ‘unit’ so you end up with nonsense like “Unit HA04 engine out.” etc. I did hear one person describe a powercar as “Not the normal carriage but the one with the engine in” which made me smile. I could tell you a funny story about attempting to turn a pair of powercars this week but I’d better not...

Cheers for that - do tell

 

[jingsmonty]

No but I know what you’re thinking of.

I'm guessing that it doesn't involve a move at Inverness, as it's easy enough to turn power cars here (via the ground frame into platform 5). Possibly something involving a trip round the Dalmeny Chord...?

 

[Paul Kerr]

Another path is in the system to run from Doncaster to Perth via Ladybank for Monday. Curiously the info in RTT states that it's an electric loco which would be a neat trick for the line north of Edinburgh Hopefully set HA22 is coming north:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O08827/2019/05/27/advanced

 

[InOban]

Unless it's just a set of coaches to be married to power cars already in Scotland. I notice it's not leaving directly from Wabtec, but from the West Yard.

 

[Goldromans]

Another path is in the system to run from Doncaster to Perth via Ladybank for Monday. Curiously the info in RTT states that it's an electric loco which would be a neat trick for the line north of Edinburgh Hopefully set HA22 is coming north:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O08827/2019/05/27/advanced

Well whatever it is, it’s on the move!

 

[ScottDarg]

Another path is in the system to run from Doncaster to Perth via Ladybank for Monday. Curiously the info in RTT states that it's an electric loco which would be a neat trick for the line north of Edinburgh Hopefully set HA22 is coming north:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O08827/2019/05/27/advanced

Video on Facebook shows this to be 43133/43147 and set HA22

 

[Goldromans]

Video on Facebook shows this to be 43133/43147 and set HA22

Is HA22 refurb number 5?

 

[hexagon789]

Is HA22 refurb number 5?

I believe so.

 

[hexagon789]

Is HA22 refurb number 5?

Just to confirm it is the fifth refurb set, ScotRail have just tweeted as such.

 

[Goldromans]

Just to confirm it is the fifth refurb set, ScotRail have just tweeted as such.

Certainly nice to see the rate of delivery going up!

 

[jingsmonty]

Just to confirm it is the fifth refurb set, ScotRail have just tweeted as such.

Good - HA22 is bound for Inverness, so I might finally be able to do the conversion training!

 

[Steven_G]

5 deliveries and all positioned around the country for both training and running.

Surely all 5 will be in active passenger service continually soon.

 

[jingsmonty]

5 deliveries and all positioned around the country for both training and running.

Surely all 5 will be in active passenger service continually soon.

Full training will beed to be completed at Inverness (I'm assuming the other depots have pretty much completed the conversion) before they can enter regular service in the HML. It's not long (approx 2hrs for Drivers, not sure about the Conductors), so it shouldn't take long. It needs to be done, as I imagine it would be much easier to diagram the sets if they were fully interchangeable.

We'd look pretty daft if a refurb turned up in Inverness & no-one could work it!

I'm hoping we aren't too far away from Inter7City sets displacing Classic sets....

 

[snookertam]

You’re right in that only the trailers are given semi-permanent set for maintenance purposes. Powercars are independent and aren’t associated with the set number. As well as the Genius system there’s a big whiteboard on the wall in Control to keep track of all the set formations and what powercars are on them, which is updated by the Maintenance Controllers. However to most folk in ScotRail Control everything is called a ‘unit’ so you end up with nonsense like “Unit HA04 engine out.” etc. I did hear one person describe a powercar as “Not the normal carriage but the one with the engine in” which made me smile. I could tell you a funny story about attempting to turn a pair of powercars this week but I’d better not...

Is that not the responsibility of ScotRail to fully train their staff then? They've only worked with units with underfloor engines for decades so their entire frame of reference will be based on that. The staff in the control office, aside from it being their job, probably don't give a monkeys about trains and many probably barely even travel in them.

In fact I can tell you with some degree of certainty that if it wasn't for the fact they can look out the window, most control staff would barely ever get to see a train.

 

[JLUK144]

With Set 5 now delivered, how close is Set 6?

 

[Clansman]

Another full and standing refurb yesterday between Glasgow and Aberdeen. Luggage capacity an issue despite the improvements. Mostly cases on vestibules - more needs to be done to highlight the storage space for cases between seats, which is quite large between two bays of four.

In the long term, it's difficult to see how four carriages will prove adequate on the peaks and weekends.

The five carriage sets can't come soon enough.

 

[hexagon789]

Certainly nice to see the rate of delivery going up!

It is indeed!

 

[hexagon789]

Good - HA22 is bound for Inverness, so I might finally be able to do the conversion training!

Nice! Best of luck with that.

 

[InvHst]

Be interesting to see when the training programme will restart then