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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.
Also do you cancel next day trains every time a night shift shed driver goes sick?
Sometimes that's what has to happen, yes.
How imminent is the next set?
It's not all that many years ago that I remember travelling on a northbound Chieftain, there was a problem with one of the power cars and they swapped for a new one at Waverley. We carried on our way, late, but everyone got there. I think it was around Christmas time; I remember it being quite a full train. Also have a memory of being on a southbound one that had been rescued by a 37. Whatever the reasons are (no doubt they are complex and some would argue unavoidable), it's a shame that the system as a whole seems to be becoming ever more inflexible.
Powercar swaps in the Waverley used to be a regular thing until about 10 years ago when it became just too busy to be practical.
So ScotRail should use one of their units to cove extend one of their trains because LNER caped their Inverness at Perth?
Nothing you see stabled is ever just gathering dust, everything has a somewhere to be and ScotRail cannot, and should not, short change their own passengers in order to accommodate LNERs mess.
Tricky one for Scotrail, as every Scotrail passenger getting on after Perth would have ended up standing to Inverness. That’s a negative travelling experience for those passengers through no fault of Scotrail.
With at least 3 hours notice, very surprising there were no busses arranged at Perth.
Multi post in error
Many people travelling to Inverness in LNER do so because of Scotrails mess and overcrowding on 170’s. Had the HST’s been introduced on time...
So the passengers you are happy to leave high and dry are in many cases Scotrail passengers.
Anyway with a bit of imagination no-one needed to be short changed.
Looking after passengers should be important to everyone working on the railway. It clearly isn’t. That situation is not good for the long term future.
If you have ever been stranded at Perth before you wouldn’t be surprised at all. All to familiar pattern of treating passengers like this.
Hide behind excuses rather than do something positive.
Why am I not surprised by that answer.
I assume you have raised your concerns up with ScotRail as to why they don't provide contingency travel arrangements for a TOC they are not responsible for?
From a passenger perspective, I understand your viewpoint (not that I agree with it) but from an operational perspective, ScotRail have no obligation to disrupt their own services and rotas for the sake of another operator's services - and rightly so. Unfortunatley this is one of those scenarios where 'these things happen'
Of course he hasn’t. He just wants to grind his axe more about ScotRail. There’s absolutely no attempt to listen to reason or logic, just the same old tired drivel.
Ah, so it's all solved then. ScotRail should have just visualised some buses.
(End of sarcasm.)
More seriously, a TOC doesn't want to create bad PR for itself. ScotRail doesn't want to make passengers have a bad experience. But, if there is not an alternative (and there are fairly reasonable explanations as to why one couldn't find a load of buses and drivers on a Sunday, which @Highlandspring has given), then there's not much ScotRail can do. I also remind you that it was LNER's train who had problems and was cancelled: it was never ScotRail's job to sort out alternative travel for their passengers.
I'm all for complaining about TOCs (I do it quite often), but when there isn't much alternative, or the explanations are dismissed because "not enough imagination has been used" or similar, then I find the complaints broadly pointless.
I've gotten to the stage where it may be worth trying to understand people and then asking if they put their money where their mouth is when they are not on this forum, when raising uncommon complaints or questions that cross the line between reason and the absurd.
Beats a change from tearing my hair out!
Greetings, been watching this since the start but first post...
Made a trip last month from Pitlochry to Aberdeen. (7th May) Left plenty of time and was hoping to get a run out in some Scotrail HSTs.
Pitlochry to Perth - disappointed to find a 170, (now stopping 100 yards down the platform from the building, not great in the Highland weather - whats that all about ?)
Perth to Dundee -another 170 I'm afraid to say...
At Dundee let another 170 and a 158 go by. To be fair the 158 (ex Edinburgh) wasn't that busy.
An HST came in, people tried to get on, but it was only on a training run....
Finally an unrefurbished HST came in. Took it to Aberdeen. I had bought a 1st class ticket, and it was a fabulous run.
On return just after 5pm was I'm afraid twas 170 towards Glasgow. Pleasant enough.
Unfortuately we were held at Montrose to await a train clearing the single track section. A couple of minutes stretched to 40 before a northbound HST limped in. Must have taken it a long time to cover the 2 mile single section... ! Interesting decision to hold us..
We then missed the northward connection at Perth by 15 minutes.
I expected a very long wait, but in this case Scotrail had organised a bus for the dozen or so passengers. After about half an hour messing about we were on our way without further incident.
Hopefully the Engineering staff will get on top of these machines before too long and they will be out in reliable force - even after 40 years the 125 is still capable of providing a superior travelling experience.
In defence of Scotrail, although their management and operation is abysmal, although their attitude is awful, although the railway is becoming the second choice for travel from Inverness to the Central Belt, the faults for HST introduction are mainly at Wabtec.
The other problem is that on a Sunday the next train is the last train. There is no other option to hang about a bit longer and get another, hopefully quieter. IME there are quite a lot of fairly elderly passengers on the Chieftan - they couldn’t really be expected to stand.
I was a very regular user of the HML between Inverness and Perth (~ 4x weekly). I’ve gone back to driving for just now.
Even on a sunday evening?
Did LNER have a buckshee powercar at Craigy ready to go? Perhaps ScotRail should have donated one from Haymarket..........
both assumes there's a driver available.
I've no idea. My point, with no insider insight, was simply that everything seems to have become very inflexible with little contingency built into the system. I'm questioning whether the busy-ness of Waverley is the main reason that a power car swap isn't now a solution that can be easily implemented.
It is the amount of traffic through Waverley that has stopped this. Generally they will now do a set swap if they can with the demic set going to Craigentinny for repair/power car swap.
It is. Even on a Sunday evening. I can’t remember the last time I saw an in-traffic swap. LNER don’t even bother asking for it these days, they just run the set off to Craigy and do it there.
Given the scale of LNER, would a couple of hot spares, a 125 in Edinburgh (so it can cover North and South) and a 225 in London be an unreasonable expectation? It's probably easier to move the passengers to a new train than swap power cars in Waverley.
I imagine P1 & 20 being platforms nowadays doesn't help either; every time I was on a set which had a powercar swapped we were brought into P19 and the loco was sitting on the line that's now P20.
If you think passengers being stranded in Perth or asked to stand for two hours on an overcrowded 170 to Inverness is "tired drivel" after paying a lot of money (£60 for a return form Perth to Inverness) is just whinging then you are very symptomatic of everything that is wrong with Scotrail.
I get the LNER / Scotrail issue. But given that there was three hours notice of this event, it is reasonable to expect something to have been sorted. It is tiresome to see the excuses trotted out on here.
Moderator note: the airline comparison and suggestion for seats to be provided has been split into a new thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ed-during-disruption-as-with-airlines.184298/
If you think Scotrail run a good service and really consider passengers in their decision making then you are deluded.
There is a real need for change. Continue to shoot the messenger, it won't change the facts.
Just another reminder this thread is to discuss ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion
If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please use an appropriate thread (create one if appropriate and if there isn't one already).
Please do not continue off-topic discussion; either ignore it or report it. If you wish to reply to it, please create a new thread in an appropriate section of the forum.
So as of Friday 15th June 2019, where exactly are we with 7 Cites HST sets?
How many full refurbished sets are working passenger services not just for training?
How is Kilmarnock getting on with refurbishment? Have any Mk3 vehicles emerged from there yet and is it going any better than at Doncaster.
I might have missed some of this info in previous posts but all lost in the other stuff.