ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Steven_G]

There is a lot of sense about 2 sets a month from January.

Remember Kilmarnock have started work. One set from each coach works per month makes sense.

 

[Highland37]

In 2019, what is the average period for wabtec to deliver a set?

 

[Cashew]

There is a lot of sense about 2 sets a month from January.

Remember Kilmarnock have started work. One set from each coach works per month makes sense.

Remember set number 8 hasn't left Doncaster yet and we don't know if number 9 has been started or when delivery is expected. and we do not know what progress Kilmarnock have made if any, as they will be novices when it comes to fitting the sliding doors.

 

[Killingworth]

Remember set number 8 hasn't left Doncaster yet and we don't know if number 9 has been started or when delivery is expected. and we do not know what progress Kilmarnock have made if any, as they will be novices when it comes to fitting the sliding doors.

Remember XC sets are twice as long. 2 more of them to emerge yet. With them out of the way by late January (?) getting out shorter sets should speed up.

 

[Northhighland]

I think everyone involved would be better not putting dates out there only to miss them. Wabtec don't seem to have predictability yet over the time period so until they do I would suggest they avoid promising what they cannot deliver.

 

[59CosG95]

WNXX has reported that 43136 & 43179 have run north from Loughborough to Haymarket in I7C colours after refurbishment.

 

[ld0595]

.... and it's been cancelled.

 

[Cashew]

Remember XC sets are twice as long. 2 more of them to emerge yet. With them out of the way by late January (?) getting out shorter sets should speed up.

There are still a number of GWR "Castle" sets to be delt with, and I think the number is 4 or 5.

 

[InvHst]

.... and it's been cancelled.

Been reported this morning from rail magazine head of media that the move was cancelled as scotrail won't be taking any until the issues are resolved with them plan to have 12 by end of year apparently

 

[59CosG95]

Worth noting, perhaps, that 47815 ran from Leicester LIP to Ely Papworth Sidings with barrier vehicles... we should have another set up for conversion soon. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O46857/2019/10/08/advanced

 

[59CosG95]

The next transfer move to Doncaster is booked for tomorrow (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P90015/2019/10/09/advanced), but it's timed for an HST, which makes me think it might not run as there's no 43s ScotRail bound down there at the mo.
I'm watching and waiting for a VSTP path...

 

[385001]

Next set arriving on Tuesday? Place your bets.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03772/2019/10/08/advanced

.... and it's been cancelled.

Cancelled as ScotRail won't take it until they are right and all snags sorted according to this tweet.
https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1181486533326643200

Planned delivery of the 8th @ScotRail IC7 HST today has been cancelled. The operator won't take them until they are right and all snags sorted. Plan is to have around 12 in traffic by end of year.

Also interesting about plan for 12 units in traffic by the end of the year. Would mean another 4 in addition the on hold 8th set being delivered in the next couple of months which would be a much faster rate than previous.

EDIT: @InvHst best me to it.

Been reported this morning from rail magazine head of media that the move was cancelled as scotrail won't be taking any until the issues are resolved with them plan to have 12 by end of year apparently

 

[John Bishop]

Surely there must be Power Cars down there attached to the set to test it before delivery.

 

[59CosG95]

Surely there must be Power Cars down there attached to the set to test it before delivery.

I'll hedge my bets on Doncaster Works having a shore supply to test the ETS.

 

[JohnR]

Has Kilmarnock started work on them yet? Feels like that was announced ages ago.

12 by December 2019 feels both ambitious (given current build rate) and pathetic (given original plans)

 

[InOban]

Cancelled as ScotRail won't take it until they are right and all snags sorted according to this tweet.
https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1181486533326643200



Also interesting about plan for 12 units in traffic by the end of the year. Would mean another 4 in addition the on hold 8th set being delivered in the next couple of months which would be a much faster rate than previous.

EDIT: @InvHst best me to it.

Without any inside knowledge I suggested that a few pages ago. There's no reason why Abellio should be paying lease charges to Angel trains for sets which are not reliably fit for use.

 

[Bassman]

Without any inside knowledge I suggested that a few pages ago. There's no reason why Abellio should be paying lease charges to Angel trains for sets which are not reliably fit for use.

In my opinion ,if this true , has been a long time coming! Goods delivered should be fit for purpose.. for passengers, for train companies, and for leasing companies.

 

[Bassman]

also for railway employees who have to use equipment which is less than reliable!

 

[43096]

Without any inside knowledge I suggested that a few pages ago. There's no reason why Abellio should be paying lease charges to Angel trains for sets which are not reliably fit for use.

Or is this at least in part ScotRail bluster and having to be seen to be being tough on the supplier even though a substantial part of the reason is ScotRail’s own engineering incompetence.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Or is this at least in part ScotRail bluster and having to be seen to be being tough on the supplier even though a substantial part of the reason is ScotRail’s own engineering incompetence.

Possibly. We all know Wabtec is not blameless but XC and GWR's refurbs seem to be working okay and are not in bits and EMR and LNER's sets seem to still give good service for their age so why oh why is the Scotrail HST situation a mess?

 

[380101]

Has Kilmarnock started work on them yet? Feels like that was announced ages ago.

12 by December 2019 feels both ambitious (given current build rate) and pathetic (given original plans)

First set has been at Wabtec Kilmarnock since the end of June and the coaches are currently going through the paint shop and final fit out. There is also a complete set with power cars across the way in Brodies getting an exam carried out before going into service.

 

[InOban]

A properly refurbished unit shouldn't require anything more than fuel and water for months. After all they've been stripped back to bare metal.

 

[Northhighland]

First set has been at Wabtec Kilmarnock since the end of June and the coaches are currently going through the paint shop and final fit out. There is also a complete set with power cars across the way in Brodies getting an exam carried out before going into service.

So are you saying Kilmarnock have one set complete and one nearly complete?

 

[380101]

So are you saying Kilmarnock have one set complete and one nearly complete?

The complete set in Brodies has not been done in Wabtec Kilmarnock. I think it must be most recent set delivered up from Doncaster, but not 100% sure.

I've only seen the one set of coaches in Wabtec Killie whilst driving past the yard.

 

[Northhighland]

So Killmarnock are taking 12-16 weeks for a set and have only one in production? That isn’t going to help as much as hoped.

 

[380101]

So Killmarnock are taking 12-16 weeks for a set and have only one in production? That isn’t going to help as much as hoped.

I imagine they've taken longer with their first set due to the staff having to learn how to do the door conversion. Wabtec Killie basically went straight from the 321 to 320 conversions to the HST job, so probably couldn't spare the staff to send to Doncaster to train before hand. Hopefully once they get the first set out the way things will speed up.

 

[Highland37]

Longer? They've taken 3 months! All the evidence available shows that hoping Wabtec will speed up is not a realistic expectation.

 

[FOH]

I imagine they've taken longer with their first set due to the staff having to learn how to do the door conversion. Wabtec Killie basically went straight from the 321 to 320 conversions to the HST job, so probably couldn't spare the staff to send to Doncaster to train before hand. Hopefully once they get the first set out the way things will speed up.

I'm sure I read somewhere they aren't doing the doors, just all the normal mkIII refurb work and then they'll to Doncaster just for doors and nothing else

 

[Caleb2010]

Currently on the 12.48 INV-EDB, set HA32, according to the coach letters its formed A,C,B,D. Still at least the booked seat exists today!

 

[Bodiddly]

I notice a lot of comments here that are very naive about how the railway works and especially trains getting refurbished. When a train enters the works, it is assessed on not just the work planned but also the basics i.e, how structurally sound it is, levels of corrosion needed dealt with, roof condition, bodywork, major exam date and whether it ties in with the work being carried out. These are 40 year old coaches with high levels of corrosion, especially around the toilet areas. Years and years of effluent, spraying up onto the undercarriage has taken its toll on the subframe. Completed sets are coming out of the works and straight into Scotrail sheds for C4 exams, due to the expired maintenance schedule.
Scotrail inherited some cantankerous beasts in these trains and it will take time to get them completed and in place but who can argue whether you would rather travel from the Central belt to the Highlands on a IC7 or a 170?