ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.

  1. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    EGIP is a sensible enough project just poorly delivered, late and way over budget. Same goes for the HST project, Caledonian sleeper all over budget and very late.

    Don't start on Calmac ferries, they are a whole other level of gross mismanagement. The choice of vessels leaves a lot to be desired, severe overhaul of all west cost ferry services and how they work is long overdue.

    Investment needs to be less political, far too often wrong decisions are made for political reasons, that is not meant as a party political point it happens in all governments of every colour.

    On HST, it does look like a decent enough solution if we could get our trains working like all the other operators...
     
  2. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    I really don't understand these positive comments on HSTs, such as the above, given that the data just don't support the view.

    On ferries, please, just invest in fixed links and move into the latter part of the 20th century.
     
  3. Alanko

    Alanko Member

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    Edinburgh to Inverness 1H07 this morning was a fully refurbished set, looking very clean. I also saw at least eight refurbed powercars kicking around Haymarket depot, if not more.
     
  4. Mordac

    Mordac Established Member

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    You'd struggle to build a bridge to Lewis.
     
  5. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    Just 4 to go now... 43126/43135/43142/43144.
     
  6. BRX

    BRX Established Member

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    Or indeed nearly every Scottish island currently served by ferry
     
  7. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    There are problems, but 3rd world? Really?

    I also question your use of the phrase '3rd world' at all, but that's a purely academic debate.
    https://itaint-necessarilyso.square...16/3/1/geopolitical-musings-from-a-southerner
     
  8. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    Re Lewis bridge, yes that would be a stupid idea as it would show that the thinking is very backward given there are much shorter routes.

    Re islands more generally, other countries have demonstrated that the above statement is not true. At least 75% of inhabited islands can be linked.

    Back to the disaster that is the HSTs though. I am booking my daughter on the Citylink bus on Friday and Sunday which is a replacement bus anyway.
     
  9. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    So there is no new timetable in December? I had a look on the Scotrail website and they haven't bothered uploading the new timetable, from 14th December. They really are an utter joke.

    But you can book a train and work out the times from that. The railway really is the worst managed transport service around. I want it to work but it's so often badly done and difficult.
     
  10. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    The reliability figures for the GWR GTI sets or the XC sets modified by Wabtec all seem way better than Scotrail, we could get their levels of reliability we would be somewhere close to a decent service.
     
  11. scotraildriver

    scotraildriver Member

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    Neither GWR or Cross Country have had to train any staff, (Scotrail training well over 1000 including alot of maintenance staff), make major changes to infrastructure (depots, fuel.points, stabling roads etc), or deal with the problems associated with the unique-to-scotrail buffet conversions which are proving troublesome. Like comparing apples to oranges.
     
  12. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Not strictly true on the training. Both operators would have to train staff on the new doors and GWR have had much training of drivers and guards as the sets moved from long distance (HSS) to local (ex-Wessex Trains) services which have different crews.
     
  13. alangla

    alangla Member

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    Not to mention the lack of shore supplies meaning extra cold starts... Wonder how many engines have run out of hours because of that bit of early idiocy.
    I’m still utterly bewildered as to why anyone in Abellio (a company that had never operated an HST) thought these were a good idea when every other franchise bid in the country seems to be based on new stock.
     
  14. scotraildriver

    scotraildriver Member

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    None of the bids for Scotrail involved new stock. First and Nat express both simply proposed a few more 170s to strengthen services. The HST idea looked like a considerable upgrade at least on paper and was a big factor in Abellio winning the bid. Everyone associated with the HST idea are long gone from the company.
     
  15. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    the power cars are the same. The mk3 coaches with sliding doors required the same training for all companies. The excuses are really wearing thin there seems no light at the end of the tunnel. We are facing another summer of short formed trains on the HML which is simply not acceptable in any shape or form. there has been plenty time to sort out the infrastructure.

    There is going to be an outpouring of public anger soon. This performance is simply not good enough. they can't even get the unmodified classics to run semi-reliably.
     
  16. PG

    PG Member

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    1. Why did they leave? ie resigned or pushed?
    2. Did they go as they could see that things were going to get worse? ie abandon a sinking ship
    3. Has their departure caused some of the problems or are you better off without them?
     
  17. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    Well, there's a new timetable in December, but it's exactly the same as the old timetable give or take a minute here or there. None of it is reliant on HST timekeeping, which is just as well since there'll be virtually no HSTs operating it.
     
  18. cf111

    cf111 Established Member

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    Took the 1727 Inverness-Queen Street service last Friday. Looked at Journeycheck before heading to the station and noticed that my train was due to be two carraiges, deep joy. Left to go to the station early because of that, just as well I did as I had to stand in line for 15 minutes to collect my tickets. One of the machines is broken and for some reason they've gotten rid of the one in the ticket office. At this point the departure board was showing my train as "delayed' but no estimated time of departure. The scrolling message, for some reason, was telling us that the train was formed of both two and four carriages.

    The platform was confirmed before the train present, so after gaining access to the platform without incurring the wrath of the barrier dragons, we waited for a few minutes before a 170 arrived - not a bad result when you're convinced you're going to be crammed in to a 158 all the way to Glasgow!

    The 170 was cold, unrefurbished with no power sockets, dirty and my seat had given up the ghost as far as padding was concerned, but at least it was a train and nobody had to stand. It will be over £60 for an off-peak return (sans railcard) between Inverness and Glasgow/Edinburgh when the fares go up in the new year. If I didn't qualify for a railcard I wouldn't be using the train given the price and the uncertainty of service. There are some very good prices with advances but it's not always possible to plan far enough in advance.
     
  19. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    I still think it's a marvelous idea vs what would have been new stock i.e. rotten 800s, the refurbs are a lovely traveling environment.

    It's the execution that's been horrendous.
     
  20. Deltic1961

    Deltic1961 Member

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    I thought all the extra journeys between Inverurie and Montrose starting in December were dependent on HST's running between Aberdeen and Inverness to free up rolling stock?
     
  21. jimm

    jimm Established Member

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    The timing of the Scotrail franchise award was a bit earlier than most of the ones involving orders for lots of shiny new trains - changes in financing costs have probably had a part to play in that.

    And the Chiltern power-door Mk3 conversions in 2012 were generally reckoned to be a success (and had shown the bodyshells were still good for years to come once some corrosion was tackled) but it was believed that switching to inserting sliding pocket doors would save time and money compared with the Chiltern project's approach of rebuilding the coach ends and fitting plug doors. At the same time, the Class 43s coming off lease at GWR all had MTU engines no more than 10 years old with lots of life left in them.

    Sadly for passengers in Scotland we know it has not worked out like that, while Laira's HST maintenance expertise presumably has a lot to do with the GWR and XC sets seeming to have far fewer issues than Scotrail.
     
  22. ScottDarg

    ScottDarg Member

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  23. Brissle Girl

    Brissle Girl Member

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  24. CJSwan

    CJSwan Member

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  25. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    surely will be coming some 10 weeks after it was supposed to. Anyone know if more sets are close to completion or is it just more slippage in the programme.
     
  26. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    Considering how many sets are down in Doncaster is there any hope that there will be a big bang and loads released at once now (hopefully) snagging works are complete. I sense I'm being ever hopeful.
     
  27. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    Surely snagging works are those which mean the train can still operate but needs attention to some specific issues? It would seem that given the low use of HSTs, the issues are bigger.
     
  28. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    This may have been covered before but what exactly are the issues with the refurbs?
     
  29. gingertom

    gingertom Member

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    I don't think there's never been a definitive answer from Wabtec in the public domain. The general consensus is the corrosion remedial work required on the MK3s was far greater than anticipated, much much greater. Along with a significant quantity of skilled staff being poached to Hitachi's maintenance facility nearby.
     
  30. InvHst

    InvHst Member

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    This isn't the full reason behind the lack of deliverys scotrail refused to take any more of the units until the issues with current sets have been dealt with remember we are sitting with 2 refurbs in Inverness which haven't entered service yet and were delivered a good few months back now. These have had part failures and still no update on when they will enter service. Ha25 nearly entered service last week on the 6am Inverness to aberdeen however it failed in the depot that morning. They want fully working sets not have arsed sets that break down over issues with doors/electrics things like that they need a reliable product and the first 7 only 4 can really be classed as reliable
     

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