ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[hexagon789]

Are we short of power cars for full service?

I know only the rear power car survived the Stonehaven accident but with a number of power cars listed above as donors are we able to have 25/26 sets out there?

I make it 47 operational power cars for a maximum of 20 serviceable sets (out of 25).

 

[Steven_G]

Ok so 5 sets under maintenance at any one time or in training/peak journeys?

7 power cars - that would include some in deep service I would imagine as well as on-call spares?

Seems comfortable to me.

 

[nat67]

Are we short of power cars for full service?

I know only the rear power car survived the Stonehaven accident but with a number of power cars listed above as donors are we able to have 25/26 sets out there?

No you wouldn’t as they don’t need 25 sets out in service at any one time. Around 20 sets would be needed so 40 PC’s.

 

[hexagon789]

Ok so 5 sets under maintenance at any one time or in training/peak journeys?

7 power cars - that would include some in deep service I would imagine as well as on-call spares?

Seems comfortable to me.

Not quite - 5 sets are stored presently and the other power cars are either stored Out of Use or receiving attention.

There are supposed to be 24 diagrams iirc.

 

[43096]

Not quite - 5 sets are stored presently and the other power cars are either stored Out of Use or receiving attention.

There are supposed to be 24 diagrams iirc.

They ain’t going to be diagramming 24 from 25 sets. Not a chance.

 

[hexagon789]

They ain’t going to be diagramming 24 from 25 sets. Not a chance.

When I asked about this a while ago I'm sure NajaB said it was 24 diagrams that was planned despite that seeming rather high. Obviously things have changed but wouldn't it depend on whether they replace the written off set?

 

[Speed43125]

There are supposed to be 24 diagrams iirc.

Always sounded ambitious with 26 sets, can't be any easier with only 25.

EDIT: beat to it completely

 

[hexagon789]

Always sounded ambitious with 26 sets, can't be any easier with only 25.

EDIT: beat to it completely

I fully agree and I would go one step further - impossible with 25 sets, I don't see how they would manage only one set off on maintenance/repair etc and all the others in traffic

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I fully agree and I would go one step further - impossible with 25 sets, I don't see how they would manage only one set off on maintenance/repair etc and all the others in traffic

By comparison Great Western seemed to plan 8 from 11 although recently both the number of sets and diagrams have increased.

 

[hexagon789]

By comparison Great Western seemed to plan 8 from 11 although recently both the number of sets and diagrams have increased.

Which would be the equivalent of about 19 sets rostered out of 26, or 18 out of 25.

 

[najaB]

When I asked about this a while ago I'm sure NajaB said it was 24 diagrams that was planned despite that seeming rather high.

It wasn't me - I thought it was 22/23 diagrams and was corrected to 24.

 

[43096]

When I asked about this a while ago I'm sure NajaB said it was 24 diagrams that was planned despite that seeming rather high. Obviously things have changed but wouldn't it depend on whether they replace the written off set?

The original plan was to have 27 sets (different mix of 4-car and 5-car) with 24 in service. With the plan going to 26 sets you would think it was 23 in service. With a set written off, that would be expected to drop again to 22 from 25 diagrammed.

 

[hexagon789]

It wasn't me - I thought it was 22/23 diagrams and was corrected to 24.

Apologies, but at least you've confirmed the '24' figure.

The original plan was to have 27 sets (different mix of 4-car and 5-car) with 24 in service. With the plan going to 26 sets you would think it was 23 in service. With a set written off, that would be expected to drop again to 22 from 25 diagrammed.

Perhaps that is what they will then amend the diagrams to. I did suggest at the time that if they didn't replace the lost set, switching an Inverness-Aberdeen diagram back to a unit would save one HST set.

 

[43096]

Perhaps that is what they will then amend the diagrams to. I did suggest at the time that if they didn't replace the lost set, switching an Inverness-Aberdeen diagram back to a unit would save one HST set.

Given the commuting reduction post-Covid, there will likely be less peak demand on (say) Fife circle workings which would free a 170 up. As there has been no movement to replace the set, I'd suggest replacement is looking less and less likely every day.

 

[hexagon789]

Given the commuting reduction post-Covid, there will likely be less peak demand on (say) Fife circle workings which would free a 170 up. As there has been no movement to replace the set, I'd suggest replacement is looking less and less likely every day.

I thought at the time it seemed unlikely, so I agree it seems increasingly so now

 

[Abc100]

Does anyone have a list of the current HST diagrams being used while we’re still seeing a pandemic timetable? Seen quite a lot of units about over recent weeks

 

[nat67]

Are we short of power cars for full service?

I know only the rear power car survived the Stonehaven accident but with a number of power cars listed above as donors are we able to have 25/26 sets out there?

No you wouldn’t as they don’t need 25 sets out in service at any one time. Around 20 sets w

Does anyone have a list of the current HST diagrams being used while we’re still seeing a pandemic timetable? Seen quite a lot of units about over recent weeks

If you use RealTime Trains Scotrail gives you TOP’s numbers for what train it is so working out some diagrams that way can work.

 

[ainsworth74]

Okay, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, let me remind everyone that this thread is solely for discussion about the introduction of HSTs to ScotRail. That is the sum total of the breadth of discussion that is suitable for this thread. Discussions about whether or not ScotRail made the right or wrong decision, even tangentially, are off-topic. Discussions about wider considerations about HSTs are off-topic. Please ensure that contributions to this thread are about the introduction itself of HSTs to ScotRail.

There are currently two other threads which may be of interest. One is about whether ScotRail made the right decision or not (which can be found here) and there is another discussion whether or not HSTs are sufficiently crashworthy and whether they should be withdrawn (which can be found here).

Please ensure that in future any contributions here are on-topic.

 

[InvHst]

Does anyone have a list of the current HST diagrams being used while we’re still seeing a pandemic timetable? Seen quite a lot of units about over recent weeks

Monday to Friday as follows

1A41 - 0530 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1B18 - 0904 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1H13 - 1333 Edinburgh - Inverness
1T62 - 1727 Inverness - Glasgow QS
ECS Glasgow QS - Perth

1T04 - 0534 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
1H51 - 1209 Glasgow QS - Inverness

1B07 - 0547 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1A55 - 0928 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1B32 - 1313 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
2L69 - 1719 Edinburgh - Cardenden


1A47 - 0553 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1T14 - 0944 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
1A63 - 1239 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1B40 - 1600 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

1A44 - 0601 Inverness - Aberdeen

1H23 - 0618 Aberdeen - Inverness
1T98 - 0845 Inverness - Glasgow QS
1H15 - 1508 Glasgow QS - Inverness
1B44 - 1850 Inverness - Edinburgh

1H05 - 0700 Glasgow QS - Inverness
1A50 - 1102 Inverness - Aberdeen
1H33 - 1342 Aberdeen - Inverness
1A58 - 1714 Inverness - Aberdeen

1A45 - 0727 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1B24 - 1101 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1A78 - 1529 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1T44 - 1840 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
ECS Glasgow QS - Perth

1T10 - 0738 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
1A59 - 1041 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1T26 - 1350 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
1A77 - 1639 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen

ECS Haymarket Depot - Glasgow QS
1A51 - 0741 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1T40 - 1739 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS

1H07 - 0835 Edinburgh - Inverness
1B31 - 1249 Inverness - Edinburgh
1A81 - 1734 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

ECS Perth - Glasgow QS
1A53 - 0840 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1B35 - 1356 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

Expect this to change from timetable change

 

[Stathern Jc]

That's really interesting, thanks.
Any chance of doing us a favour and posting a list once the new timetable has been confirmed?
I'm sure that would be well appreciated, and probably pre-empt some speculation.
(Do I recall there being a Scotrail HST Diagrams thread somewhere??).

 

[InvHst]

That's really interesting, thanks.
Any chance of doing us a favour and posting a list once the new timetable has been confirmed?
I'm sure that would be well appreciated, and probably pre-empt some speculation.
(Do I recall there being a Scotrail HST Diagrams thread somewhere??).

I'm sure I can when I work it out haha

 

[CEN60]

Monday to Friday as follows

1A41 - 0530 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1B18 - 0904 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1H13 - 1333 Edinburgh - Inverness
1T62 - 1727 Inverness - Glasgow QS
ECS Glasgow QS - Perth

1T04 - 0534 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
1H51 - 1209 Glasgow QS - Inverness

1B07 - 0547 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1A55 - 0928 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1B32 - 1313 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
2L69 - 1719 Edinburgh - Cardenden


1A47 - 0553 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1T14 - 0944 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
1A63 - 1239 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1B40 - 1600 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

1A44 - 0601 Inverness - Aberdeen

1H23 - 0618 Aberdeen - Inverness
1T98 - 0845 Inverness - Glasgow QS
1H15 - 1508 Glasgow QS - Inverness
1B44 - 1850 Inverness - Edinburgh

1H05 - 0700 Glasgow QS - Inverness
1A50 - 1102 Inverness - Aberdeen
1H33 - 1342 Aberdeen - Inverness
1A58 - 1714 Inverness - Aberdeen

1A45 - 0727 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1B24 - 1101 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1A78 - 1529 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1T44 - 1840 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
ECS Glasgow QS - Perth

1T10 - 0738 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
1A59 - 1041 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1T26 - 1350 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS
1A77 - 1639 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen

ECS Haymarket Depot - Glasgow QS
1A51 - 0741 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1T40 - 1739 Aberdeen - Glasgow QS

1H07 - 0835 Edinburgh - Inverness
1B31 - 1249 Inverness - Edinburgh
1A81 - 1734 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

ECS Perth - Glasgow QS
1A53 - 0840 Glasgow QS - Aberdeen
1B35 - 1356 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

Expect this to change from timetable change

Sadly the above does not reflect my recent experience - GLQ - INV at 0700was a moth eaten 170 & the return a few days later in the middle of the day an not dissimilar 170 in a sorry state - not a pleasant experience!

 

[HST43257]

Expect this to change from timetable change

Any idea as to what said changes will be?

 

[InvHst]

Any idea as to what said changes will be?

Not fully 100% confirmed a few weird things that are throwing up some intresting changes that weren't aware of

Sadly the above does not reflect my recent experience - GLQ - INV at 0700was a moth eaten 170 & the return a few days later in the middle of the day an not dissimilar 170 in a sorry state - not a pleasant experience!

0700 Glasgow Inverness is rarely a 170 now its very unlucky if you get a 170 sadly going back south the only booked hsts at moment sit at 0845 1249 1727 and 1850

 

[Blindtraveler]

If they are going to continue running 170 on on intercity work then they badly need to spend some money on them urgently. It's all very well perhaps not using the HST when there is less demand but surely a bit of cash could be found from somewhere to superficially li0 up the turbo stars and at least refurbished the moths if nothing else, some of them are truly rancid inside and and do not give the good impression to The tourists that ScotRail have spent so much marketing money trying to give


Alternatively just use the hsts which are far better for the work anyway despite everything

 

[scotraildriver]

If they are going to continue running 170 on on intercity work then they badly need to spend some money on them urgently. It's all very well perhaps not using the HST when there is less demand but surely a bit of cash could be found from somewhere to superficially li0 up the turbo stars and at least refurbished the moths if nothing else, some of them are truly rancid inside and and do not give the good impression to The tourists that ScotRail have spent so much marketing money trying to give


Alternatively just use the hsts which are far better for the work anyway despite everything

The 170s have all been refurbished over the last few years and 425-433 currently getting a refresh and sockets fitted. Never seen any moths.

 

[CEN60]

The 170s have all been refurbished over the last few years and 425-433 currently getting a refresh and sockets fitted. Never seen any moths.

The 170 I was on on the way back from Inverness had no sockets or USB outlet in Standard Class - it was very very tired on the inside

 

[najaB]

The 170 I was on on the way back from Inverness had no sockets or USB outlet in Standard Class - it was very very tired on the inside

That's an exception. I can't remember the last time I had a 170 that didn't have power sockets.

 

[DannyMich2018]

That's an exception. I can't remember the last time I had a 170 that didn't have power sockets.

You're lucky then!! Our XC 170s don't have either power sockets or USB ports and are used on long distance service Nottingham-Birmingham-Cardiff and Birmingham-Cambridge (Stansted).
Any plans to get 5-car ones in service anytime soon? Considering very few people will be going abroad some routes such as the HML are likely to get very busy this summer.

 

[najaB]

You're lucky then!! Our XC 170s don't have either power sockets or USB ports and are used on long distance service Nottingham-Birmingham-Cardiff and Birmingham-Cambridge (Stansted).

I was only speaking to ScotRail's units.