ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Davester50]

You are correct, it has always been the intent that HSTs would only operate some of the services. The problem here isn't the answer, it's the interpretation.

If it's open to interpretation, then it's not clear, and thereby is a problem.

 

[berneyarms]

If it's open to interpretation, then it's not clear, and thereby is a problem.

You seem to be the only person here with that particular interpretation....

 

[InOban]

I too never understood that all Aberdeen to Inverness trains would be HST. They're really more than the route requires, I would say.

However these sets at Slateford mean that their power cars are somewhere else, presumably needing maintenance. This does suggest that availability isn't what it should be.

 

[scotraildriver]

I too never understood that all Aberdeen to Inverness trains would be HST. They're really more than the route requires, I would say.

However these sets at Slateford mean that their power cars are somewhere else, presumably needing maintenance. This does suggest that availability isn't what it should be.

The sets are at Slateford because there isn't room for them anywhere else until Cadder opens. Nothing to do with availability. Depot capacity is at a premium each night.

 

[Davester50]

You seem to be the only person here with that particular interpretation....

Well, considering I didn't post the tweet, that's not actually correct. Conversely, only you and one other have said otherwise...
See how this works?

 

[najaB]

If it's open to interpretation, then it's not clear, and thereby is a problem.

As a trainer, I agree with that statement as a general principle. However, one also needs to consider confirmation bias (the tendency for people to see what they want to see).

Let's put the same message conveyed in the tweet into a different context: "Emirates operates A380s on routes to London, Paris and New York". Tomorrow they have a Boeing 773 operating the LHR-DXB route - does that make the original statement untrue or misleading? Does the person who saw that and booked the flight on the assumption that it would be an A380 have any grounds to complain? I say no to both.

 

[InOban]

The sets are at Slateford because there isn't room for them anywhere else until Cadder opens. Nothing to do with availability. Depot capacity is at a premium each night.

I take it the power cars are scored at Haymarket?

 

[scotraildriver]

I take it the power cars are scored at Haymarket?

Yes. Spare power cars at Haymarket.

 

[Davester50]

As a trainer, I agree with that statement as a general principle. However, one also needs to consider confirmation bias (the tendency for people to see what they want to see).

And that's the problem. Fanfare a *big* improvement, and people will be disappointed if it's hidden in the small print that it's not all that it seems.
You maybe know that the it's not 100% HSTs on the line, but will every one, who is only an occasional traveller, or not have an interest in trains? That I doubt. And without seeing the question, a reply should remove any ambiguity.

Let's put the same message conveyed in the tweet into a different context: "Emirates operates A380s on routes to London, Paris and New York". Tomorrow they have a Boeing 773 operating the LHR-DXB route - does that make the original statement untrue or misleading? Does the person who saw that and booked the flight on the assumption that it would be an A380 have any grounds to complain? I say no to both.

Again, it's the small print that's the issue.
ScotRail Twitter have a long history of trumpeting the good things, but long shy away from anything that's not so good.

 

[43096]

You maybe know that the it's not 100% HSTs on the line, but will every one, who is only an occasional traveller, or not have an interest in trains?

If they haven't got an interest, then they won't know the difference between an HST and a 170.

 

[gingertom]

It's been mentioned that the 158s on the Kyle & Far North lines have to come south for the more major exams & maintenance. It makes more sense to roster in service workings to facilitate this than empty stock moves.

 

[najaB]

And that's the problem. Fanfare a *big* improvement, and people will be disappointed if it's hidden in the small print that it's not all that it seems.

But it wasn't hidden in any small print. They have never once said that all services between the seven cities will be operated using HSTs. People are reading things that were never written.

If it was a 'parliamentary' service with one train per week in one direction only then you might have a point but, as posted above, there are six or seven planned HST services a day.

 

[scotraildriver]

At the end of the day Scotrail can use whatever trains they see fit on any route. And the vast majority of passengers don't know or care what type of train it is. Today I was asked twice if my HST was going to Anniesland.

 

[ainsworth74]

As fascinating as this detailed examination of the wording of one tweet from three odd years ago has been I would ask that we move on please

 

[3973EXL]

5S04 1 early departing Doncaster Goods 2
Realtime Trains - 505N 1032 Doncaster Works Wabtec to Slateford Depot

 

[Mollman]

5S04 1 early departing Doncaster Goods 2
Realtime Trains - 505N 1032 Doncaster Works Wabtec to Slateford Depot

Two power cars and a single Mk3!

 

[InOban]

How bizarre. Unless there's a coach in Slateford which needs swapped. Perhaps we'll see a return working.

 

[Steven_G]

So that leaves 8 coaches down there now, no power cars.

Just read a Scot Gov infrastructure report from March 21. Specifically regarding the Highland Main Line Phase 2



"Infrastructure works were completed by the regulated milestone of March 2019 (as stated in September 2019 report).

Enhanced passenger services will now be implemented in December 2021, which is later than previously reported (May 2021). This is due primarily to a delay in the delivery of rolling stock."

 

[kkong]

This is from a ScotRail presentation from Sep 2018 with the (then planned) services from Dec 2018 and then from an unspecified time in 2019.

 

[Davester50]

If they haven't got an interest, then they won't know the difference between an HST and a 170.

They will know the difference between 2 carriages, and 4 though.

 

[Killingworth]

When the first units were introduced I was surprised to hear that roofs leaked and water dripped on seats and passengers.

Passing through Pitlochry today two HSTs were alongside each other and I got some pictures - including a couple from the foot bridge. Those familiar with the units won't find these shots surprising, but if this is the level of visible corrosion on the roof after all the refurbshment no wonder warranty work is necessary.

 

[InvHst]

I regularly get the Inverness to Aberdeen train at Dyce and the last few times its not been HST. Is there an issue with fulfilling all the diagrams they said they would?

The 1102 and 1714 ex Inverness for Aberdeen have been 170 most of this week as a fault with ha17 meant it had to wait for a vst path to Haymarket for attention and sadly wil diagram alterations it had to be changed as a result should be back to hst running as normal Monday morning

At the end of the day Scotrail can use whatever trains they see fit on any route. And the vast majority of passengers don't know or care what type of train it is. Today I was asked twice if my HST was going to Anniesland.

Please tell me this is true haha

This is from a ScotRail presentation from Sep 2018 with the (then planned) services from Dec 2018 and then from an unspecified time in 2019.

Then Covid hit and delayed the whole project
With passenger numbers not recovered fully yet at the moment looking at the temporary covid timetable.

18 southbound services leaving Aberdeen all but 2 are booked hst heading down and the other 2 are booked 170s for a reason as one forms the full Glasgow inverness via Aberdeen 1439 departure and the other is a move to ensure enough 170s in Edinburgh.

Intresting to see the effect of cadder but can only be a good thing

 

[Clansman]

Please tell me this is true haha

Most certainly is I imagine.

In 2017 I was sitting in the lounge car on the Lowlander sleeper from Waverley, and somebody jumped on half drunk about 10 mins to departure and asked the entire coach if it was the train to Airdrie.

 

[scotraildriver]

It is definately true. The vast majority of the general public have no idea or care about what type of train is what, or which routes they operate on. It just a train to them.

 

[47827]

Same applied to mk1 and mk2 slam door stock, even with compartments and occasionally steam on the front. Not just hst versus sprinter style comparisons. The last surviving hst sets are much closer to the modern stock to comply with current rules so I can forgive non enthusiast passengers easily. Steam or even diesel on slam door heritage stock in long gone liveries is more odd but how do these people know it couldn't be subbing for their usual train either? Have helped stranded or heavily delayed passengers board that stock to get them home a few times too and even recall an odd one getting interested and booking themselves and/or parents on an excursion as a result.

 

[Deltic1961]

It is definately true. The vast majority of the general public have no idea or care about what type of train is what, or which routes they operate on. It just a train to them.

So why the big paint job and all the PR surrounding the introduction from Scotrail if it's "just a train"?

 

[scotraildriver]

So why the big paint job and all the PR surrounding the introduction from Scotrail if it's "just a train"?

Marketing. Like every commercial company does. You might attract a few extra punters who appreciate the train, but the vast majority just want a seat, reasonable fares and the train to be on time. Whether that's an HST or a 170 is irrelevant to most people.

 

[Mag_seven]

A reminder that the this is a Traction and Rolling Stock section thread the subject of which is Scotrail HST Introduction and Updates.

If anyone wants to discuss anything else they are welcome to start a new thread elsewhere.

thanks

 

[Goldromans]

Any news/dates on when the fifth coaches will be added?

 

[158757]

Can anyone advise on the status of 43012 and 43142? I've been looking for them on RTT for a while but not seen any allocations.