ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

43096

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Can anyone advise on the status of 43012 and 43142? I've been looking for them on RTT for a while but not seen any allocations.
43012 was damaged in the Dalwhinnie derailment; I’m sure I’ve seen it reported as being at Assenta Rail in Hamilton for repair.
 
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Steven_G

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According to this, Cadder Yard should have just gone operational (although not fully)


Although, whilst the HST Depot is on RTT, no movements showing.
 

scotraildriver

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According to this, Cadder Yard should have just gone operational (although not fully)


Although, whilst the HST Depot is on RTT, no movements showing.
It's nowhere near. The staff accommodation buildings aren't anywhere near being completed and all drivers will need retrained as they were trained before Christmas for a December opening so their competency has expired.
 

och aye

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Interesting slide about the reliability of the HST's in this video. The slide is at 21m25s

 

Devon Sunset

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A couple of photos of 43185 looking sad at Haymarket depot.
 

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EIKN

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Any updates bplease on when and where the five car sets are , also a recent magazine article spoke of ,various improvments to different rail services ( eg four car 170's for XC + refurb for those , could be used it said for longer routes, possibly points north ).

Another cited discussion over replacing the lost set after the awful disaster HST last year, a local rag internet story in Doncaster stated wabtec had received orders for further HST sets for Scotrail? I've not heard anything here , but a magazine article also stated some discussion about future ' lengthening , so a 4 would be 5 , with the 5 sets possibly 6 or 7.
It spoke of speculative routes to Newcastle, York, and leeds ( note this also spoke of lsl's latest set operating a full timetabled service which would also go to Scotland via Settle Carlisle. ( Perhaps the author was confusing the two , as LSL are obtaining more sets,one in BR IC Swallow )

I imagine it's just discussions at the moment, but the additional coaches making sets longer than 4 and 5 cars, I have definitely seen before.

It might be handy for peak services for 6 cars, but no mention of type of extra car , but one could easily imagine a composite 1st, and PRM coach ' TSD ' , also back to the current increase I gather all extras are TSL, surely a 5 car HST would benefit from a composite , eg TFCL .
Anyway if anyone has heard any more on this .

Also a quick question, as I'm not a regular poster , given that its more than 7 cities ' served , is there scope to run a 5 car along to Tweedbank at peak hour services, instead if two 170's, as two of those mean two crews and would have been better as X2 3 car 158 or HST?
 

John Bishop

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Any updates bplease on when and where the five car sets are , also a recent magazine article spoke of ,various improvments to different rail services ( eg four car 170's for XC + refurb for those , could be used it said for longer routes, possibly points north ).

Another cited discussion over replacing the lost set after the awful disaster HST last year, a local rag internet story in Doncaster stated wabtec had received orders for further HST sets for Scotrail? I've not heard anything here , but a magazine article also stated some discussion about future ' lengthening , so a 4 would be 5 , with the 5 sets possibly 6 or 7.
It spoke of speculative routes to Newcastle, York, and leeds ( note this also spoke of lsl's latest set operating a full timetabled service which would also go to Scotland via Settle Carlisle. ( Perhaps the author was confusing the two , as LSL are obtaining more sets,one in BR IC Swallow )

I imagine it's just discussions at the moment, but the additional coaches making sets longer than 4 and 5 cars, I have definitely seen before.

It might be handy for peak services for 6 cars, but no mention of type of extra car , but one could easily imagine a composite 1st, and PRM coach ' TSD ' , also back to the current increase I gather all extras are TSL, surely a 5 car HST would benefit from a composite , eg TFCL .
Anyway if anyone has heard any more on this .

Also a quick question, as I'm not a regular poster , given that its more than 7 cities ' served , is there scope to run a 5 car along to Tweedbank at peak hour services, instead if two 170's, as two of those mean two crews and would have been better as X2 3 car 158 or HST?
I’d very much doubt Scotrail will be getting any more HSTs. With plans for reduced service levels to stay and the cost of running them then it’s highly unlikely.

It’s gone very quiet on the 5 car front.
 

DB

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I’d very much doubt Scotrail will be getting any more HSTs. With plans for reduced service levels to stay and the cost of running them then it’s highly unlikely.

I don't believe there are now any ex-GWR TFs left in store - Scotrail had one until recently for parts then sent it for scrap, which would rather indicate that they aren't planning to replace the set. Not sure how many TSs there are - but cannot be a lot as large numbers have been scrapped.

There are still some ex-LNER sets, but those are in poor condition and have a completely different interior so not likely to be of interest to Scotrail in any case.
 

najaB

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It spoke of speculative routes to Newcastle, York, and leeds
Would Scotrail even be in a position to open routes serving the North of England? I would have thought that would be under the purview of the DfT, rather than Transport Scotland.
I imagine it's just discussions at the moment, but the additional coaches making sets longer than 4 and 5 cars, I have definitely seen before.
This had been discussed previously, yes. Though I hadn't heard of any plans for anything longer than six carriages.
 

DB

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Could someone clarify if power cars 43033 and 43133 are running in service at all please?

Most recent photo on flickr of 43033 in service is 14th July this year. Has 43133 ever actually been used other than on training runs a several years ago?
 

InOban

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Am I right that in addition to the remaining 5th coaches, Wabtec also have a set which was returned for warranty work several months ago? Although its power cars were returned ?last month either side of a single 5th coach.
 

fgwrich

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I don't believe there are now any ex-GWR TFs left in store - Scotrail had one until recently for parts then sent it for scrap, which would rather indicate that they aren't planning to replace the set.

Yes, I do believe some members of staff in ScotRail are rather kicking themselves for letting that TF head down to Booths. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 

DB

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Yes, I do believe some members of staff in ScotRail are rather kicking themselves for letting that TF head down to Booths. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Seriously? Can they really not have thought of that before they sent it? It was pointed out on here a number of times, well before it went, that it was the last one not spoken for so surely Scotrail must have known that too?
 

43096

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Yes, I do believe some members of staff in ScotRail are rather kicking themselves for letting that TF head down to Booths. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Given that the rear power car has also seemingly been written off, clearly there’s no intention of replacing the wrecked set.
 

Mordac

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There's six former East Midlands TFs at Ely Papworth. They're owned by Angel too. Dunno anything about their state though.
 

fgwrich

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There's six former East Midlands TFs at Ely Papworth. They're owned by Angel too. Dunno anything about their state though.
Totally different interior's though, from ceiling panels to seats, tables and curtains. ScotRail largely uses the ex GWR First Class, so ex EMT or VTEC isn't any good other than just being a Mk3. And no, you can't just order new either - the seats may be available from Transcal, the tables (& associated electronics) were produced by the now defunct firm Arrovale. Also, a number of Mk3s stored in Ely have purchasers, so if ScotRail has missed the boat on the ex GWR spares, unfortunately, they only have themselves to blame.
 

DB

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There's six former East Midlands TFs at Ely Papworth. They're owned by Angel too. Dunno anything about their state though.

Completely different interior spec to the ex-GWR ones though.

Edit: fgwrich and I posted at the same time! As regards his point about the interiors (which is correct), the seats were actually originally Primarius, and later everything apart from the frames and bases were replaced by Transcal.

I guess if they needed to they could possibly take another Mk3 (wouldn't matter whether first or standard as the bodyshells are the same), and transplant interiors from two ex-GW buffets - if there are two not yet spoken for.
 

DB

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Didn't they recover the interior components from the crashed vehicles?

No idea. The first-class one and possibly one TS might have had some reusable interior bits (the other two TSs were totally wrecked), but it's quite likely that they didn't recover anything given the circumstances.
 

fgwrich

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Given that the rear power car has also seemingly been written off, clearly there’s no intention of replacing the wrecked set.

The intention wasn’t as a replacement for the wrecked set but as a source of spares (a full length TF is still bigger than the First Class section in the TGFB remember), or worst comes to the worst, a spare TF available to be rebuilt.
 

Speed43125

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The intention wasn’t as a replacement for the wrecked set but as a source of spares (a full length TF is still bigger than the First Class section in the TGFB remember), or worst comes to the worst, a spare TF available to be rebuilt.
Could you just clarify what you mean by that last bit? Spare TF to be rebuilt into what?
 

fgwrich

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Could you just clarify what you mean by that last bit? Spare TF to be rebuilt into what?
Whatever they need, spare TGFB perhaps. That bit was less likely to happen, but it was more useful as a source of interior spares for the aforementioned GWR interior. Either way, it's now stripped and demolished at Booths. So any chance of utilising it as a source of interior spares is now gone.

Switching back to the original topic, has there been any further news from the 5 car testing yet?
 

John Bishop

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Whatever they need, spare TGFB perhaps. That bit was less likely to happen, but it was more useful as a source of interior spares for the aforementioned GWR interior. Either way, it's now stripped and demolished at Booths. So any chance of utilising it as a source of interior spares is now gone.

Switching back to the original topic, has there been any further news from the 5 car testing yet?
All gone very quiet. There hasn’t been any more test runs for quite a while from my understanding. But, as seems to be a common theme, I think they will miss the boat if they’re not introduced in the next few weeks as tourist and school holiday traffic will start dwindling down again. There are some very busy trains out there and could do with that extra seating.

From hearing my colleagues further north, the 1046 ex INV leaves full and standing almost everyday. It’s booked as 170 so could certainly use some extra capacity.
 

Stathern Jc

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Even with the easing of Covid restrictions there will be many of us who would still wish to avoid travel in a train that's likely to be full and standing, it's never an attactive option.
Next week I'm travelling to Lincolnshire for the second family wedding in July (rearranged from last year), and much as my preference is rail travel I'm driving again to be able to stay in my own bubble.
I don't imagine I'm the only one yet to return to rail in the summer season, but if I had confidence that the additional capacity of the 5-car HSTs was available I most likely would have.
Here's hoping they will be running sooner rather than later.
 

Blindtraveler

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The winners here are definitely the bus and coach companies. Even with restrictions easing in England many of them are still attempting to maintain social distancing especially on mid to long-distance workings. And the coach companies are also doing a fantastic job round here on Sundays when ScotRail continue to provide nothing except the occasional service on lines that serve hospitals.
 

InvHst

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All gone very quiet. There hasn’t been any more test runs for quite a while from my understanding. But, as seems to be a common theme, I think they will miss the boat if they’re not introduced in the next few weeks as tourist and school holiday traffic will start dwindling down again. There are some very busy trains out there and could do with that extra seating.

From hearing my colleagues further north, the 1046 ex INV leaves full and standing almost everyday. It’s booked as 170 so could certainly use some extra capacity.

Take it from me on the front line the 1046 Monday to Friday needs extra carriages. Saturday it's booked a 5 car which solves the issue but especially Mondays it could really use strengthened or the 0944 back
 

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