ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[mushroomchow]

I was on a 156 the other day and the bike space is superior to 170s, 158s and the HSTs which says a lot that in 2018 you can only go backwards.

To be fair, the luggage / guard area on the loco is still there on the Scotrail HSTs, so if they want to utilise that for passenger luggage / bikes there's nothing stopping them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The things I am looking forward to regarding the HSTs are:

• Quieter
• More space for passengers (more seats)
• Potentially more cycle space
• More intercity style travel
• Faster
• More frequent
• Better

Well done TS, Scot Gov and Abellio I say.

It really is a testament to the quality of the original design and build that people consider these trains that are heading towards 50 years old to be something to aspire to which has not really been beaten by anything since (that runs on diesel).

 

[Marklund]

The things I am looking forward to regarding the HSTs are:

• Faster

They have a higher permitted speed, yes, but where will they be able to use it?
Can short sets go to 125 mph?
Is there anywhere that has a linespeed of 125 where they will be used?

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, short sets can't do 125, it's either 110 or 100 for the 4-car sets due to brake force limitations (I forget which). However I don't believe there is anywhere they could exceed 100 anyway.

 

[Marklund]

No, short sets can't do 125, it's either 110 or 100 for the 4-car sets due to brake force limitations (I forget which). However I don't believe there is anywhere they could exceed 100 anyway.

Thanks, I was fairly sure I'd read that the maximum linespeed where they're running would be no more than 100.
They may well be quicker at accelerating, but in normal service, faster? No.

 

[najaB]

Is there anywhere that has a linespeed of 125 where they will be used?

There are a few stretches of 100mph, but nothing faster AFAIK.

 

[Marklund]

There are a few stretches of 100mph, but nothing faster AFAIK.

Thanks.

 

[mullac30]

Now appearing on Facebook. Looking good!

And here is an unbranded, but repainted Mk3!

 

[marks87]

Has it has power doors fitted? Would seem odd to paint it before major surgery.

 

[mullac30]

Has it has power doors fitted? Would seem odd to paint it before major surgery.

You can see the outline of the blue power doors through the masking, I think.

 

[Clansman]

The power doors have already been fitted as pictures of the coach in question appeared with the doors in and as well the cut out in the body prior to their instalment.

 

[ld0595]

There are a few stretches of 100mph, but nothing faster AFAIK.

I'm sure there are also sections of line where HSTs have higher permitted line speeds over the 170s. The section just north of Dundee towards Broughty Ferry allows a speed of 80mph for HSTs compared for 70mph for other stock (see here) so I see no reason why the shortened HSTs cannot do this.

 

[Highland37]

It's the timetable that gives the faster times is it not?

 

[najaB]

I'm sure there are also sections of line where HSTs have higher permitted line speeds over the 170s. The section just north of Dundee towards Broughty Ferry allows a speed of 80mph for HSTs compared for 70mph for other stock (see here) so I see no reason why the shortened HSTs cannot do this.

Actually, that's not the case. According to the Scottish Sectional Appendix, HST speeds apply to the following: Class 91 locomotive with mark 4 vehicles and DVT, classes 158, 159, 168, 170, 171, 172, 175, 180, 220, 221, 222, 253, 254 and 373.

 

[gsnedders]

Actually, that's not the case. According to the Scottish Sectional Appendix, HST speeds apply to the following: Class 91 locomotive with mark 4 vehicles and DVT, classes 158, 159, 168, 170, 171, 172, 175, 180, 220, 221, 222, 253, 254 and 373.

Waaaiiiittttt… 373?! In the Scottish Sectional Appendix? They could never run to Scotland without being out-of-gauge. Or is it just a standard definition across the entire SA?

 

[ld0595]

Actually, that's not the case. According to the Scottish Sectional Appendix, HST speeds apply to the following: Class 91 locomotive with mark 4 vehicles and DVT, classes 158, 159, 168, 170, 171, 172, 175, 180, 220, 221, 222, 253, 254 and 373.

Aha! Thanks for explaining - I wasn't aware of that!

 

[marks87]

Waaaiiiittttt… 373?! In the Scottish Sectional Appendix? They could never run to Scotland without being out-of-gauge. Or is it just a standard definition across the entire SA?

Surely just a legacy from when the (shorter) 373s were intended to run to Glasgow on Regional Eurostar services?

 

[scotraildriver]

The only multiple units Scotland that are not permitted to use HST speeds are the 185's.

 

[Marklund]

It's the timetable that gives the faster times is it not?

Faster and quicker are two different things.
You can make journeys quicker with the existing stock if you take out stops.

 

[BRX]

So why the different speed limits for different trains - is it something to do with weight?

 

[najaB]

So why the different speed limits for different trains - is it something to do with weight?

Braking performance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So why the different speed limits for different trains - is it something to do with weight?

Impact on track and braking performance. In particular the HST, when full-length, was designed to be able to brake to a stand from 125mph in the distance a conventional locomotive-hauled train of Mk2 coaches would be able to brake from 100mph.

(Two Miles a Minute by O S Nock is a good read on these things)

 

[route101]

Waaaiiiittttt… 373?! In the Scottish Sectional Appendix? They could never run to Scotland without being out-of-gauge. Or is it just a standard definition across the entire SA?

They have been to Scotland on testing

 

[scotraildriver]

They have been to Scotland on testing

There is still a Class 373 stop board for reversing into Shields depot.

 

[brel york]

I’m hearing delivery of the sets for the launch is looking iffy

 

[OmniCity999]

I’m hearing delivery of the sets for the launch is looking iffy

Sorry, i've not really been keeping up with this as much as i should - when was the proposed launch? Was it to be gradual?

 

[Clansman]

Sorry, i've not really been keeping up with this as much as i should - when was the proposed launch? Was it to be gradual?

The proposition was that the HSTs (the first of which is meant to arrive in the next few weeks) would be gradually phased in from May between Aberdeen and Edinburgh, with operation on all Intercity routes by the end of this year, and all sets operating all Intercity services by the end of 2019.

Introduction date now pushed back by over a month.

 

[OmniCity999]

The proposition was that the HSTs (the first of which is meant to arrive in the next few weeks) would be gradually phased in from May between Aberdeen and Edinburgh, with operation on all Intercity routes by the end of this year, and all sets operating all Intercity services by the end of 2019.

Introduction date now pushed back by over a month.

Cheers Clansman.

 

[brel york]

The whole program is slipping

 

[Class313:)]

doesnt it always