ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[JohnR]

 

[IanXC]

Has anyone attempted to list the ongoing location of the power cars that are transferring to ScotRail?

 

[43096]

Has anyone attempted to list the ongoing location of the power cars that are transferring to ScotRail?

Yes.........
In Scotland for crew training sets, but not yet overhauled: 43021/037/126/132/135/179
In Scotland after overhaul: 43033/148
At Brush for overhaul: 43012/036/134/143/146/163
Stopped at Laira last night for handback exams & repairs (off lease 28/02): 43169/183
To be stopped for handback (off lease 28/02): 43032/168

The rest of the assigned fleet with GWR as follows (long term stopped only split out):
Stopped at Laira for damage repairs: 43015/181
Stopped at Laira for F exam: 43035
Stopped at Laira for E exam: 43140
In traffic with GWR: 43003/026/028/030/031/034/124/125/127-131/133/136-139/141/142/144/145/147/149-152/164/175-177/182

 

[IanXC]

Yes.........
In Scotland for crew training sets, but not yet overhauled: 43021/037/126/132/135/179
In Scotland after overhaul: 43033/148
At Brush for overhaul: 43012/036/134/143/146/163
Stopped at Laira last night for handback exams & repairs (off lease 28/02): 43169/183
To be stopped for handback (off lease 28/02): 43032/168

The rest of the assigned fleet with GWR as follows (long term stopped only split out):
Stopped at Laira for damage repairs: 43015/181
Stopped at Laira for F exam: 43035
Stopped at Laira for E exam: 43140
In traffic with GWR: 43003/026/028/030/031/034/124/125/127-131/133/136-139/141/142/144/145/147/149-152/164/175-177/182

Excellent thanks! Not all of those remaining with GWR are going to ScotRail tho I don't think?

 

[43096]

Excellent thanks! Not all of those remaining with GWR are going to ScotRail tho I don't think?

No... the list above only covers the 54 power cars due to transfer. Other power cars are off-topic for this thread!

 

[IanXC]

No... the list above only covers the 54 power cars due to transfer. Other power cars are off-topic for this thread!

Wow ok without counting them up, and based on my impression of how many there are transferring the list looked too long!

 

[hexagon789]

Any chance of the pre-1993 HST differentials on the Edinburgh and Glasgow returning or is there not much point?

 

[170401]

Any chance of the pre-1993 HST differentials on the Edinburgh and Glasgow returning or is there not much point?

Which differentials are you referring to? Theirs been a lot of speed increases at various points on the E&G since 1993 so they may already be implemented.

 

[route:oxford]

Any chance of the pre-1993 HST differentials on the Edinburgh and Glasgow returning or is there not much point?

HSTs run two services between Waverley & Polmont on the E&G anyway.

 

[hexagon789]

Which differentials are you referring to? Theirs been a lot of speed increases at various points on the E&G since 1993 so they may already be implemented.

The HST differential speeds which applied over portions of the route until fully removed by 1993. These included the 90 section out of Haymarket towards Glasgow which used to be posted "HST 100" and the 80 section through Winchburgh which was HST 90.

HSTs run two services between Waverley & Polmont on the E&G anyway.

I'm aware of that yes.

 

[JohnR]

The HST differential speeds which applied over portions of the route until fully removed by 1993. These included the 90 section out of Haymarket towards Glasgow which used to be posted "HST 100" and the 80 section through Winchburgh which was HST 90.



I'm aware of that yes.

According to the sectional appendix, speed differentials marked HST also apply to 170s and 158s. Not that 170s get much opportunity to reach such speeds, seeing as they struggle to accelerate, even on a flat.

 

[hexagon789]

According to the sectional appendix, speed differentials marked HST also apply to 170s and 158s. Not that 170s get much opportunity to reach such speeds, seeing as they struggle to accelerate, even on a flat.

I am aware of this, I simply wondered about the likelihood of the sections of the Edinburgh and Glasgow which once had HST differential speeds having these restored.

 

[gordonjahn]

The HST differential speeds which applied over portions of the route until fully removed by 1993. These included the 90 section out of Haymarket towards Glasgow which used to be posted "HST 100" and the 80 section through Winchburgh which was HST 90.

I think the Winchburgh slab-track / electrification project made the speed limit 90mph through the area anyway. Not sure about the section west of Haymarket and the network specification lumps the speed into 80-105mph which isn't too useful. I'd assume with 100mph EMU stock that can accelerate faster than an HST on the way that it might have had an upgrade either during Airdrie-Bathgate works and the electrification into Edinburgh from Newbridge.

 

[scotraildriver]

It is. Winchburgh tunnel is now 90.

 

[najaB]

Does anyone know if the reported running on one power car is, in fact, happening?

 

[Carntyne]

No, it’s never been planned to happen.

 

[Jonny]

Does anyone know if the reported running on one power car is, in fact, happening?

No, it’s never been planned to happen.

Why go to all the trouble? Two cars running would surely be more efficient.

 

[najaB]

Why go to all the trouble? Two cars running would surely be more efficient.

It never made that much sense to me either, but it was reported at the time as if it were fact.

 

[scotraildriver]

There have been alot of things reported as "fact" with regards to this project - most of which are complete nonsense. We have an internal discussion board at Scotrail which has an HST project page which- an at the risk of disappointing all the rumour merchants - reports that the project is prgressing well, with a few challenges, pretty much as planned. Nothing has changed from the original plan at he start of the franchise and will be completed as such. This from the project manager.

 

[DuncanS]

They have been sharing a video of the new livery on twitter and hyping it up as faster links between the 7 cities.

 

[43096]

It never made that much sense to me either, but it was reported at the time as if it were fact.

People need to wake up and develop some nonsense (other words are available...) filters. It was pretty obvious that single power car running was not going to happen:
a) because the plan is to cut journey times;
b) even on a 2+4 set, running with one power car shut down turns it into a 1+6 in terms of weight, which would be slower than an existing 2+8 set.

 

[43096]

There have been alot of things reported as "fact" with regards to this project - most of which are complete nonsense. We have an internal discussion board at Scotrail which has an HST project page which- an at the risk of disappointing all the rumour merchants - reports that the project is prgressing well, with a few challenges, pretty much as planned. Nothing has changed from the original plan at he start of the franchise and will be completed as such. This from the project manager.

But the Project Manager would say that, wouldn't he? He's not going to go on a semi-public discussion board and do anything other than put a positive spin on things.

Looking across the three similar projects (XC, GWR and ScotRail), there has not been one single vehicle outshopped from Doncaster as yet. Planned dates have repeatedly come and gone with no sign of a completed vehicle, let alone a set. That says to me there is a serious risk to the programme - I for one think the May start date for ScotRail is at serious risk.

 

[59CosG95]

Wow ok without counting them up, and based on my impression of how many there are transferring the list looked too long!

I've counted them up, and all seems fine.

 

[Clansman]

We have an internal discussion board at Scotrail which has an HST project page which- an at the risk of disappointing all the rumour merchants - reports that the project is progressing well, with a few challenges, pretty much as planned. Nothing has changed from the original plan at he start of the franchise and will be completed as such. This from the project manager.

If you look through the previous months of discussion on that very board you'll notice that the quoted introduction date has moved back from May until at least the summer.

Whilst the project is coming along and should be completed without any major hitches, saying that every aspect is going as planned is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[59CosG95]

43032/168/169/183 now all off-lease. LA07 and LA74 off-lease too (though some swaps have occurred, so I'm not 100% sure which coaches are going off-lease and which aren't).
In fact, 43183 & 169 ran north from Laira to St. Phillip's Marsh yesterday as 5Z43 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V42518/2018/02/27/advanced) with 6/8ths of LA07 in tow (40722 and 44028 not in tow).
Another move from SPM to Doncaster Works ran in the wee hours of this morning; http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O73025/2018/02/28/advanced (5E03, presumably a ROG move).
5Z43's booked in again for today (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V42519/2018/02/28/advanced), this is 43032 & 43168 with whatever of LA74 they've picked; all of LA74 has gone up with spare TF 41103 swapping in for TFKB 40757.

 

[Northhighland]

Seems progress on returns is slow. Now can understand that fist one or two refurbs might take longer on 40 year old coaches. There will be issues not foreseen. But surely pace will pick up once these issues are solved?

Is this a lack of resources?

 

[JohnR]

Seems progress on returns is slow. Now can understand that fist one or two refurbs might take longer on 40 year old coaches. There will be issues not foreseen. But surely pace will pick up once these issues are solved?

Is this a lack of resources?

It should be expected that the first few will take longer than expected, as you get to understand such vehicles - especially as I understand they arnt all identical or as plans may show.

 

[Pete_uk]

Didn't they find one of the great western mk3s was a bit shorter than normal as it was one of the prototypes? Is that still down south, anyone know?

 

[Northhighland]

It should be expected that the first few will take longer than expected, as you get to understand such vehicles - especially as I understand they arnt all identical or as plans may show.

Understand that. But you would expect that and programme accordingly. Also you would expect the subsequent work to speed up. Doesn’t really explain why the programme looks like it is slipping 6 months

 

[59CosG95]

Understand that. But you would expect that and programme accordingly. Also you would expect the subsequent work to speed up. Doesn’t really explain why the programme looks like it is slipping 6 months

I'd suspect that the original programme assumed that the 800s and their ilk would have a fault-free, smooth introduction, allowing a handback of HSTs to the leasco's on time.
This has not proven to be the case, and combined with other factors, it's been quite difficult to keep it to time.
Doncaster's also doing the same modifications to the GWR "retained" fleet, along with XC's fleet; the XC fleet does have some trailers which are former LHCS vehicles, so the wiring to accommodate the doors may be a bit tricksome.