ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[43096]

Understand that. But you would expect that and programme accordingly. Also you would expect the subsequent work to speed up. Doesn’t really explain why the programme looks like it is slipping 6 months

Exactly. It is not like Mark 3s are an unknown quantity. Wabtec should know exactly what the issues are, as they did the power doors conversion for Chiltern, and it was on the back of that they came up with the current design.

 

[43096]

I'd suspect that the original programme assumed that the 800s and their ilk would have a fault-free, smooth introduction, allowing a handback of HSTs to the leasco's on time.
This has not proven to be the case, and combined with other factors, it's been quite difficult to keep it to time.

That is not the case. Handback of sets from GWR has been exactly according to the plan (bar one set, which was presumably agreed between GWR, Angel and ScotRail on the basis that Wabtec couldn't take it anyway). Angel have contractual delivery dates with ScotRail which have to be stuck to, in the same way that the 170s from ScotRail are going to Northern even though the 385s aren't ready.

Doncaster's also doing the same modifications to the GWR "retained" fleet, along with XC's fleet; the XC fleet does have some trailers which are former LHCS vehicles, so the wiring to accommodate the doors may be a bit tricksome.

Wabtec have plenty of experience of both HST and LHCS varieties of Mark 3 (they converted the LHCS for XC in the first place!), so I really don't see why that should be an issue.

 

[brel york]

If you look through the previous months of discussion on that very board you'll notice that the quoted introduction date has moved back from May until at least the summer.

Whilst the project is coming along and should be completed without any major hitches, saying that every aspect is going as planned is a bit of an exaggeration.

It’s far from going as planned lol

 

[Steven_G]

Hi all - newbie here. Been keeping a keen eye on the new HST, 385's and stock rejig for a while.

Loving the livery on the HST and the Inverness/Aberdeen - Glw/Edin route is just perfect for them to stretch their legs.

There was talk last year about increasing capacity for bikes/climbing/walking gear. Has anything happened re that?

 

[najaB]

If anyone's in the area, a Scotrail liveried Class 43 (couldn't see the number) just pulled into the Dundee carriage sidings.

 

[JohnR]

A set was parked on the Down Through loop this morning at 7am. Presume they've been doing driver training all morning?

 

[59CosG95]

If anyone's in the area, a Scotrail liveried Class 43 (couldn't see the number) just pulled into the Dundee carriage sidings.

Was that one of the "new" ones? Could have been either 43148 or 43033 at this stage.

 

[najaB]

Was that one of the "new" ones? Could have been either 43148 or 43033 at this stage.

Yes, new livery.

 

[brel york]

Big push at wabtec to get rake one ready for end of April ,

 

[clc]

If you look through the previous months of discussion on that very board you'll notice that the quoted introduction date has moved back from May until at least the summer.

Whilst the project is coming along and should be completed without any major hitches, saying that every aspect is going as planned is a bit of an exaggeration.

Alex Hynes tweeted this morning that intercity services start in May.

 

[Clansman]

Alex Hynes tweeted this morning that intercity services start in May.

If that's the case then fair play to them if they manage to get the first set in service by then, even despite the fact that there's now been three different introduction dates quoted in the last couple of months from the PM team.

 

[brel york]

April is still a big ask

 

[hexagon789]

Alex Hynes tweeted this morning that intercity services start in May.

I hope that is the case, but one wonders if that is realistic considering the delays. I suppose only time will tell really.

 

[JohnR]

I think the May introduction is not for all 7 cities to be linked, but perhaps only for services on one route - perhaps Edinburgh - Aberdeen?

 

[clc]

I think the May introduction is not for all 7 cities to be linked, but perhaps only for services on one route - perhaps Edinburgh - Aberdeen?

Yes he did say Edinburgh-Aberdeen starts in May. I don’t think it was ever planned to link all cities from day one of introduction to be fair.

 

[47271]

Maybe they mean they'll have one train on one service in May, anything more looks most unlikely.

Yes, Edinburgh-Aberdeen is due to go over to HSTs first.

 

[najaB]

Maybe they mean they'll have one train on one service in May, anything more looks most unlikely.

I hope that they'd have at least two - so that they can run the opposing services.

 

[CJSwan]

I heard yesterday that it is planned to have two sets running between Edinburgh and Aberdeen as of the May timetable change.

Of course this could change, and can't be taken as gospel until nearer the time.

 

[hexagon789]

I heard yesterday that it is planned to have two sets running between Edinburgh and Aberdeen as of the May timetable change.

Of course this could change, and can't be taken as gospel until nearer the time.

Two sets in service by May seems far more believeable than a sufficient complement of HSTs to operate all Edinburgh-Aberdeen services considering the delays in the refurbishment programme.

 

[JohnR]

I presume there wont be a timetable change for just two sets.

 

[najaB]

I presume there wont be a timetable change for just two sets.

I doubt the timetable would be changed until there were enough sets available to operate the majority of services.

 

[Altnabreac]

From memory when I went to the HST talk at the IMechE last year the plan was something along the lines of:
May 2018 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
December 2018 Edinburgh - Inverness
May 2019 Glasgow - Aberdeen

Wasn't entirely clear whether Glasgow - Inverness would be Dec 18 or May 19.

Not sure they would introduce the reduced journey times line by line or only in May 2019 once the full service is in place.

 

[170401]

May 2019 Glasgow - Aberdeen

Wasn't entirely clear whether Glasgow - Inverness would be Dec 18 or May 19.

Glasgow HSTs are entirely dependent on Queen st platform lengthening.

 

[gingertom]

from a recent article in Rail magazine quotes the roll out plan to be for 2+4s to be introduced on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen. Once the 2+4 rebuild is complete the 2+5s replace them and the 2+4s start to cascade to Edinburgh-Inverness diagrams. Glasgow-Inverness & Aberdeen will use 2+4 once there are sufficient 2+5s on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen and 2+5s take over the Glasgow-Aberdeen once Queen Street platforms are full length. It is a gradual introduction of increased capacity.
Once the Aberdeen-Inverness upgrades are done 2+5s start on that route too, some as extensions from the central belt.
End game is Aberdeen sees 2+5s from Glasgow, Edinburgh and Inverness, with Inverness seeing 2+4 from the central belt. Always with the option to add an extra coach to formations should there be demand.

 

[adrock1976]

Of note, I spotted a GWR liveried set in Platform Zero at Haymarket yesterday afternoon (around 15:40 to 16:10). I did not get the numbers of the powercars as I had the dog with me and trying to get it settled (it is an excitable Border Collie).

 

[route101]

As i travelled Glasgow Queen St to Aberdeen on a 170 this week , i look forward to the HSTs .

 

[swaldman]

from a recent article in Rail magazine quotes the roll out plan to be for 2+4s to be introduced on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen. Once the 2+4 rebuild is complete the 2+5s replace them and the 2+4s start to cascade to Edinburgh-Inverness diagrams. Glasgow-Inverness & Aberdeen will use 2+4 once there are sufficient 2+5s on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen and 2+5s take over the Glasgow-Aberdeen once Queen Street platforms are full length. It is a gradual introduction of increased capacity.
Once the Aberdeen-Inverness upgrades are done 2+5s start on that route too, some as extensions from the central belt.
End game is Aberdeen sees 2+5s from Glasgow, Edinburgh and Inverness, with Inverness seeing 2+4 from the central belt. Always with the option to add an extra coach to formations should there be demand.

Do we know what the reasoning is behind Inverness having shorter trains (i.e. why use 2+4 at all, once the Queen St lengthening work is done)? I realise that anecdote != data, but every time I've been on a 170 between Inverness and the central belt it's been overcrowded...

 

[gingertom]

Do we know what the reasoning is behind Inverness having shorter trains (i.e. why use 2+4 at all, once the Queen St lengthening work is done)? I realise that anecdote != data, but every time I've been on a 170 between Inverness and the central belt it's been overcrowded...

it does seem strange but adding a fifth coach if the demand is there hasn't been ruled out. Like all these decisions it was probably a financial one. With a 2+4 being able to fit into Queen Street today I can't see any reason for delaying their introduction if these provide a capacity boost over the 170, which of course can/will be cascaded elsewhere on the network.

 

[najaB]

Do we know what the reasoning is behind Inverness having shorter trains (i.e. why use 2+4 at all, once the Queen St lengthening work is done)?

Because the timetable is being adjusted to provide a greater number of services overall.

 

[jopsuk]

Is the saving on not having 2+5 sets on Inverness trains that significant? I think we all know damn well that fleet issues will see 2+4 out on services that need to be 2+5 whilst a 2+5 works a quieter Inverness service