ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[47271]

The post I made yesterday, which was purely the result of hearing gossip, wasn't intended to prompt speculation on what would've been better than the HSTs. I wanted to ask whether or not halting the programme at its present point would improve Scotrail's overall financial position.

Now that they've got (nearly) all of the 385s running they're just about holding together an intercity service with a handful of HST refurbs, a few more grubby classics, and a mix of 170s and 158s. If there was any truth in what I heard, I wonder if they might be considering a very limited HST service, not much more than we have now, in the longer term?

Mind you, at the rate we're going at, would we really notice any difference?

 

[GrimShady]

It's doubtful they would manage to get it past the Scottish Government anyway. The franchise would be taken back. The scenic stock project is another total failure.

 

[Railperf]

Reading about the condition of the ex-GWR Mk3s, would the leasing company have penalised GWR in any way when they took them back?

Surely any leasing contract would stipulate the condition that the vehicles have to be returned in, and it would be somewhat surprising if the specified condition is what we're hearing.

I would imagine corrosion is excluded as it isn'y something the TOCs can do much about - except for treating surface rust.

 

[thejuggler]

Saw one of the short 125s in Pitlochry on Friday. Looked smart and I am in no doubt the journey would be more comfortable than a DMU alternative.

 

[Class83]

Saw one of the short 125s in Pitlochry on Friday. Looked smart and I am in no doubt the journey would be more comfortable than a DMU alternative.

Well it depends if more passengers wished to travel than there are seats in 3 Mark 3 carriages, a double 158 will have significantly more standard class seats.

The post I made yesterday, which was purely the result of hearing gossip, wasn't intended to prompt speculation on what would've been better than the HSTs. I wanted to ask whether or not halting the programme at its present point would improve Scotrail's overall financial position.

Now that they've got (nearly) all of the 385s running they're just about holding together an intercity service with a handful of HST refurbs, a few more grubby classics, and a mix of 170s and 158s. If there was any truth in what I heard, I wonder if they might be considering a very limited HST service, not much more than we have now, in the longer term?

Mind you, at the rate we're going at, would we really notice any difference?

I doubt this, simply as the non-modified HSTs and Mark 2 rakes will all require exemptions from the access regulations from the 1st of January. These will be required temporarily, but I struggle to see them being granted permanently. Whether they can switch to refurbishing East Coast units which have had fewer Dawlish salt showers, or get some Mark5 plus loco units after the Transpennine order is finished is a different question. But much as we love to decry the ROSCO model, unless Scotrail are truly incompetent, they're only paying for the units they actually have, if the WabTec or the ROSCO (which one is it?) going bust is much more likely. The IEP model is really good in this respect as it's for the provision of functioning units.

 

[Clansman]

a double 158 will have significantly more standard class seats.

...and toilets, and disabled spaces, and luggage & public bike storage

 

[Geoff DC]

Maybe just get GWR to run them - no probs in Cornwall with refurb or classic sets

 

[Railperf]

Maybe just get GWR to run them - no probs in Cornwall with refurb or classic sets

Then again. GWR do have trained maintenance staff at St Philips Marsh , Plymouth Laira and Penzance Long Rock who probably know a thing or two about keeping these running - having done so for 40 years!
Unless the Scotrail fleet could be maintained at Craigentinny - it looks like it will be a while to train the new depots handling them!

 

[nat67]

From what I have seen from a diagram point of view things are not as bad as you all grumble about. Around 10 diagrams each day are in service with the odd failure/swap for a 170 around 1 day each week.

 

[Railperf]

From what I have seen from a diagram point of view things are not as bad as you all grumble about. Around 10 diagrams each day are in service with the odd failure/swap for a 170 around 1 day each week.

What are the 10 diagrams please for clarity?
Thanks.

 

[aar0]

doing engine changes outside will be fun in the winter, could they not have fitted a crane in one of the sheds? Also, what is it that’s manouvering the engineless power car under the crane?

I thought that. Madness! Surely any BR era works will have an overhead crane?

 

[43096]

It’s one way to get rid of the ATP equipment I guess.

They appear to have run a poll recently to select a colour for painting overhauled engines. Pink won
https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1166974766357630977?s=21

2 points from that video- doing engine changes outside will be fun in the winter, could they not have fitted a crane in one of the sheds? Also, what is it that’s manouvering the engineless power car under the crane?
Assume the video was made at Haymarket.
There’s also a team lineup of the fitters with the pink engine on their Twitter home page

Craigentinny have been doing engine changes outside for the last 20 years or so.

 

[PHILIPE]

What are the 10 diagrams please for clarity?
Thanks.

They can be found in the "Frequently Requested Diagrams" thread:-

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/frequently-requested-diagrams.170615/

 

[Highland37]

Why are the refurbished sets not out?

 

[dmkc]

Noticed there seems to be a Wabtec van parked at Haymarket most mornings. In banging the returns about? Quite a few refurbs on depot, interestingly very few Power Cars coupled up to them.

 

[gingertom]

Noticed there seems to be a Wabtec van parked at Haymarket most mornings. In banging the returns about? Quite a few refurbs on depot, interestingly very few Power Cars coupled up to them.

could this be some snagging work happening?

 

[47271]

Noticed there seems to be a Wabtec van parked at Haymarket most mornings.

Is it a late 1970s Vauxhall Chevette in British Rail utility yellow with massive rust patches covered up in fibreglass and waterproof tape? The seats were replaced relatively recently and are quite comfortable but the passenger door doesn't quite fit and there's no room for the driver's bike in the back? It often has to be taken off the road with sudden and unexpected faults, partly because it has to be parked outside all night with its engine running for fear of it not starting again.

Only joking, but I like the idea of the present shambles that I have to put up with being visited on Wabtec on their own day to day transport.

 

[Aictos]

Apart from the fact that the refurbished sets have power doors, is there anything different from a passenger point of view compared to the slam door versions?

 

[DannyMich2018]

Any news on refurb number 8? Scotrail tweeted a good week or so was ready for delivery but no sign yet. Although as posted recently very few refurbs been in service recently so doubt it will make a difference.

 

[Journeyman]

Apart from the fact that the refurbished sets have power doors, is there anything different from a passenger point of view compared to the slam door versions?

The interior layout is changed. The FGW sets have almost all airline seating, the ScotRail refurbs have more tables. Also the first class vehicle has a buffet counter, and presumably they have retention-tank fitted PRM-compliant toilets as well.

 

[CJSwan]

There’s also a PIS (Passenger Information System) which has been installed on the refurbs, but does not work on them all. There is one set, which pretty much since it entered service, does not recognise any route code and therefore the conductor has to make station announcements just as on the unrefurbished sets.

 

[Goldromans]

What would be the possibility of ScotRail replacing the first class coach on the classic sets (which is a massive waste of space IMHO) with the buffet/first class coaches from GWR to enable the classic sets to offer a catering service similar to the refurbs (hot food, ground coffee etc)? I realise the full kitchen is also rather wasteful, but surely less so than having a whole coach of first class seats?

 

[fgwrich]

What would be the possibility of ScotRail replacing the first class coach on the classic sets (which is a massive waste of space IMHO) with the buffet/first class coaches from GWR to enable the classic sets to offer a catering service similar to the refurbs (hot food, ground coffee etc)? I realise the full kitchen is also rather wasteful, but surely less so than having a whole coach of first class seats?

If they were happy to take on further Mk3s, then they could always take on the MK3 TRSMB (Mini Buffets) and Mk3 TCs. Unfortunately I can't see this happening though.

 

[43096]

If they were happy to take on further Mk3s, then they could always take on the MK3 TRSMB (Mini Buffets) and Mk3 TCs. Unfortunately I can't see this happening though.

Won’t happen as all the TSMB vehicles are Porterbrook owned whereas the ScotRail sets are Angel owned.

 

[jamieintercity]

A pair of PCs ( should be 43142/4) are heading south to loughborough for repaint/mods today

And, is this HA19 tomorrow??
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R04499/2019/09/05/advanced

 

[Clansman]

I wouldnt call the FOs a waste of space at all. If anything they are incentivising people to upgrade to first class. Since the classics came into service, I've never seen so many first class passengers between Aberdeen and Glasgow.

Having a full catering service would cause more complications re-staff issues. Not to mention the fact that the classics are so unreliable that you'd end up with as many catering staff heading back pass on a subbed in 170 as there are crew members actually working the service in the first place.

 

[SC318250]

And, is this HA19 tomorrow??
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R04499/2019/09/05/advanced

No. Power cars only from Brush

 

[43096]

No. Power cars only from Brush

Check the link...... it ain’t from Brush.

 

[43096]

A pair of PCs ( should be 43142/4) are heading south to loughborough for repaint/mods today

And, is this HA19 tomorrow??
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R04499/2019/09/05/advanced

Can’t be anything but 43142/144 as they’re the last pair to go in!!!!

 

[jamieintercity]

HA19 tomorrow??

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00061/2019/09/06/advanced