ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Highland37]

A franchise that can't train its staff and a supplier that can't provide a reliable product on time coupled with the solution itself being 40 year old well used stock is not a great idea. Oh with hindsight!

 

[InvHst]

According to ScotRail Journey Check there seems to be several short-formed trains on the Aberdeen/Inverness - Edinburgh/Glasgow services today. 09:44 Inverness to Edinburgh looks to be worked by a single 158.

Was a HST then a 170. Failure of a 170 means that whole diagram is a single 158 which is horrendous

 

[SC318250]

Just passed Doncaster Wabtec. No sign of HA19, must be in shed.
Full rake of XC just arrived in West Yard being shunted into Works, with a full XC rake waiting departure from works

 

[connormill]

According to ScotRail Journey Check there seems to be several short-formed trains on the Aberdeen/Inverness - Edinburgh/Glasgow services today. 09:44 Inverness to Edinburgh looks to be worked by a single 158.

Pathetic.

I know the factors that cause this scenario to come about, but for fare paying passengers it's just not good enough.

The excuses just don't wash for most people now, this is a multi billion pound franchise for christ sake!

 

[InvHst]

6 diagrams out today rest formed of 170s and apparently it's only getting worse as their is a backlog of coaching stock needing exams. No other way to describe this as a farce it takes too long to do any exams and now resulting in huge coach short formations across the network and remember 4 170s are due to leave very soon for EMR

 

[47271]

Yup, this is so bad that it's starting to make the introduction of the new Caledonian Sleeper stock look like a big success.

 

[InOban]

As I said a few posts ago, I don't think that Abellio have any contract with wabtec. They have a contract with Angel Trains, who in turn have a contract with wabtec. I only hope that the Abellio contract with AT has good penalty clauses for late delivery and poor availability.
It's like if you agree with your telecom provider for a new line. They may give you a date, and you may have to take a day off
But if Openreach don't turn up, you can't claim against them, because you have no contract with them.

 

[Northhighland]

6 diagrams out today rest formed of 170s and apparently it's only getting worse as their is a backlog of coaching stock needing exams. No other way to describe this as a farce it takes too long to do any exams and now resulting in huge coach short formations across the network and remember 4 170s are due to leave very soon for EMR

How can there be a backlog? Surely that work is planned and known in advance what resource is required.

That is a hard excuse to swallow. Planned maintenance should never be a surprise.

 

[47271]

How can there be a backlog? Surely that work is planned and known in advance what resource is required.

That is a hard excuse to swallow. Planned maintenance should never be a surprise.

I don't know the actual answer, but I suspect each exam throws up way more problems than is expected, so each vehicle takes longer, and a backlog develops?

 

[ChrisC]

According to ScotRail Journey Check there seems to be several short-formed trains on the Aberdeen/Inverness - Edinburgh/Glasgow services today. 09:44 Inverness to Edinburgh looks to be worked by a single 158.

Yes it was a single 158. Fortunately I got on quickly at Inverness and got a good seat with space for my case. It was just about full on leaving Inverness and so everyone joining at stations down the line had to stand. Quite a few stood from Aviemore to Perth. The train got later and later due to long station stops as people tried to board with loads of luggage. The train was horrendously crowded on leaving Pitlochry. Some elderly people quite upset because their reservations were not there. The trolley could not get through but didn’t have any hot drinks anyway!

It just seemed so silly when there were 2 HSTs sitting at Inverness and many more at Haymarket. What made it more annoying was passing almost empty 3 carriage 170s on local trains as we neared Edinburgh. It didn’t arrive into Edinburgh until 1335 and so the 1333 back to Inverness was delayed. There were crowds of passengers with huge amounts of luggage ready to board the return 1333 at Edinburgh. That must have been very full from Perth northwards. Couldn’t they have found something else for the 1333.

To finish on a more positive note. Just had a few fantastic days travel based in Inverness. Enjoyed a couple of trips on the Far North Line, a great day on the Kyle line and a day on the Aberdeen line. Very impressed with the Scotrail 158’s with all the table seats and seats that actually align with the windows. Very comfortable and suited to those routes. Trains mainly on time too. All spoilt by conditions on the Highland Main Line. Now in Glasgow so I hope the problem at Tyndrum Upper is resolved so that I can do my planned trip to Mallaig on Wednesday before returning home to Nottingham on Thursday,

 

[Highland37]

One interesting aspect of this is how quiet the railway press has been. I understand that it is quite Anglo centric but there has been very little comment.

 

[Class83]

It just seemed so silly when there were 2 HSTs sitting at Inverness and many more at Haymarket. What made it more annoying was passing almost empty 3 carriage 170s on local trains as we neared Edinburgh. It didn’t arrive into Edinburgh until 1335 and so the 1333 back to Inverness was delayed. There were crowds of passengers with huge amounts of luggage ready to board the return 1333 at Edinburgh. That must have been very full from Perth northwards. Couldn’t they have found something else for the 1333.

The 170s which were empty at ~1330 are unlikely to be empty at 1730, and they can't get to Inverness and back in time for the evening peak. There simply isn't enough rolling stock. Some of the commuter peak services are probably short formed as 158/170s are covering Inverness/Aberdeen diagrams due to HST failures instead of running the services they should be on.

 

[Northhighland]

Don't see anyone scrapping the HST option soon, to much work and money sunk at this point no-one is walking away. Especially as GWR are doing the same thing and making it work.

 

[Clansman]

ScotRail have come to far too cancel the HST project. They'll never do that unless Wabtec themselves throw in the towel completely.

 

[yorkie]

If anyone wishes to propose alternative provision this must be posted in speculative ideas.

If amyone wishes to discuss maintenance of 170s this must be in a separate thread too.

This thread is for HST introduction and updates only please.

There is no shortage of forum capacity for threads on any other subject!

Edit: @Clansman has created a thread about Aberdeenshire Locals - Too much, too soon? which some readers of this thread may find interesting.

 

[47271]

0735 Aberdeen-Queen Street a 170, 0839 Queen Street-Aberdeen a 158. It must be bad.

 

[Highland37]

I have just been to Inverness Station. It is all 158s and 170s. Various HSTs in the yard.

 

[Northhighland]

I have just been to Inverness Station. It is all 158s and 170s. Various HSTs in the yard.

Colleague travelled to Glasgow today said train was rammed and people standing most of the way.

This is going to come to a head. Beggars belief that we can’t get HST’s to run as reliably as GWR can. How difficult can it be?

 

[Carntyne]

Colleague travelled to Glasgow today said train was rammed and people standing most of the way.

This is going to come to a head. Beggars belief that we can’t get HST’s to run as reliably as GWR can. How difficult can it be?

What are the MTIN results for both fleets?

 

[mcmad]

What are the MTIN results for both fleets?

the lack of Scotrail HST's actually in service means any actual MTIN figures largely meaningless

 

[SC318250]

Apologies of this has been posted already, but as working dont have time to read back a few pages.
There was a post on Scot-rail saying that due to modifications required to WSP there would be limited HST in service

 

[Speed43125]

No idea what you guys can make of this, but from my bedroom window in Dunblane I saw the 1T34 (I think) pulling in with a shiny new looking refurbished HST set. Trailing car was 43137, not sure if anyone can provide any extra info on this though.
Again, headcode I checked after the fact, but it was a GQS service stopping at DBL around 5 (give or take 45 mins).

EDIT: worked the 1A87 back up now, locos being 43131 and 137 respectively, again looked clean and new ( no dirty vines on the power cars etc), any idea on the set number from anyone?

 

[Railperf]

What are the MTIN results for both fleets?

September 2019 Modern Railways claimed 6,500 MTIN for Scotrail HST set (was it refurb or classic or both?)
GWR PRM modified 2+4 HST's were 17,452 MTIN - almost 3 times better. For comparison Class 800 and 802's are all 9 to 10k MTIN. But nothing meets South Wester Railway Siemens Class 707's on a whopping 178k MTIN for the same unit miles as Scotrail HST's

 

[YorkshireBear]

the lack of Scotrail HST's actually in service means any actual MTIN figures largely meaningless

GWR don't have many HSTs either. I'd say that based on their MTIN being double and they don't have more than half the fleet out of service GWRs experience at maintaining them is payonhr dividends!

 

[Railperf]

the lack of Scotrail HST's actually in service means any actual MTIN figures largely meaningless

Err, Modern Railways figures reported Scotrail HST's as running 181,000 miles compared to GWR PRM HST's having only run 104,000 miles. Although there may not be many units in service, the longer distances - Edinburgh & Glasgow to Aberdeen & Inverness mean the fewer units in service run more miles than GWR's HST's pottering along from Plymouth to Penzance and Cardiff to Taunton

 

[Morayshire]

1 refurb HST and 1 other (hidden behind the refurb) sitting idle (i.e. doing nothing to a non railway person) at Aberdeen just now. Meanwhile the 18:38 to Glasgow from Aberdeen is scheduled to be a 158 instead of the 170 which has been usually on it since the 19th August. Luckily I managed to catch the 18:18 East Coast service instead.

 

[Railperf]

GWR don't have many HSTs either. I'd say that based on their MTIN being double and they don't have more than half the fleet out of service GWRs experience at maintaining them is payonhr dividends!

It must be a factor that GWR have plenty of experience at Laira and St Philips Marsh to keep them rolling along! With Craigentinny just down the road - it seems bizarre that Scotrail can't draft in some extra help from there one way or the other. This is what would have happened in the old BR days. Craigentinny -IIRC - seemed to manage some of the largest MTIN figures ever achieved by HST's.

 

[Railperf]

GWR don't have many HSTs either. I'd say that based on their MTIN being double and they don't have more than half the fleet out of service GWRs experience at maintaining them is payonhr dividends!

Then again - in the last days of GWR mainline operation the HST fleet was down to only 6,500 MTIN compared to EMT's HST's achieving a whopping 25,000 MTIN, LNER achieving 22,000 MTIN with their HST's. Cross Country's fleet was not much better than GWR at 10,000 MTIN despite being based at Laira. So what does that say?

 

[DannyMich2018]

I spent a week in Devon a month ago and both of Cross Country's Refurbs were out at least on two days. I couldn't imagine ScotRail having all of theirs or even more than 1 in use at one time and there were a few GWR refurbs out too so the point is with 7 refurbs in Scotland plus the 3 extra leased sets why has recent weeks seen LESS HST activity despite Aberdeen-Inv line been fully open now!!!?? Pathetic......

 

[Steven_G]

Apologies of this has been posted already, but as working dont have time to read back a few pages.
There was a post on Scot-rail saying that due to modifications required to WSP there would be limited HST in service

This was mentioned in a post on Sunday.

If this maintenance is needing carried out and it’s planned to have more power cars out of service then that’s all fair and good.

No point everyone going round and round and round complaining about 170/158’s when it’s planned.

ScotRail look like they are putting a lot of work into getting the power cars up to a state where they are reliable, more so than their previous owners.

Set 7 due any day and it genuinely looks like a monthly drum beat.

Yup the bike situation isn’t as advertised on the refurb sets with end-to-end storage in the power cars but there will be reasons