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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

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43096

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Has a decision been made to increase the number of coaches from 4 to 5 across the entire fleet yet ?
If an 8 coach HST is relatively expensive to operate, the cost per seat for a 4 carriage set must be near double. Longer trains are cheaper trains to operate per seat assuming the seats can be filled.
There's been nothing publicly stated that I know of, but looking at the number of spare vehicles available, I'd suggest that a decision has been made to stick with the 17 x 5-car and 9 x 4-car plan and that they don't want to take up the option on more vehicles.
 
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CJSwan

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Please remember that there’s railway staff, friends and families of those involved who are part of this group.
 

ainsworth74

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I would suggest that perhaps we should leave this topic for the time being and come back to in the near future. I won't lock the thread currently but I would ask members to exercise their own judgement.

Discussion of the awful incident near Stonehaven can be found here.

Note: Posts #11,976 - 11,978 were originally in the main Stonehaven thread.
 
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Scotrail314209

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In terms of a new set to replace HA22, could they maybe take some of the redundant carriages that are currently in store at Ely and get them refurbished to Inter7City spec?
 

tiptoptaff

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In terms of a new set to replace HA22, could they maybe take some of the redundant carriages that are currently in store at Ely and get them refurbished to Inter7City spec?
That's probably the only option. Should be enough there, even with the extra 5 GWR are apparently taking
 

ScotRail158725

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In terms of a new set to replace HA22, could they maybe take some of the redundant carriages that are currently in store at Ely and get them refurbished to Inter7City spec?
2x ROG 47 with 2 barrier carriges came up to slateford today most likely for the unrefurbed MK3s there so they could be a replacement?
 

marks87

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What’s the current power car availability?

43140 is definitely a write-off, and although it appears OK from the pictures, 43030’s exact condition is unknown.
 

Scotrail314209

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What’s the current power car availability?

43140 is definitely a write-off, and although it appears OK from the pictures, 43030’s exact condition is unknown.

Pretty sure Scotrail have loads of spares sitting around at Haymarket, availability should be okay.
 

Dave91131

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2x ROG 47 with 2 barrier carriges came up to slateford today most likely for the unrefurbed MK3s there so they could be a replacement?

There's a path showing on Realtime Trains tomorrow from Slateford to Booths (Rotherham).

I seem to remember reading / being told that the stood down classic set at Slateford has been heavily robbed of internals so probably not a suitable candidate to replace HA22.
 

Scotrail314209

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There's a path showing on Realtime Trains tomorrow from Slateford to Booths (Rotherham).

I seem to remember reading / being told that the stood down classic set at Slateford has been heavily robbed of internals so probably not a suitable candidate to replace HA22.

Scotrail will definitely need to find a solution as in essence they are one set down now.

I wonder if the First Class/Buffet car is beyond economic repair as it was evidently the least undamaged carriage.
 

LOL The Irony

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Scotrail will definitely need to find a solution as in essence they are one set down now.

I wonder if the First Class/Buffet car is beyond economic repair as it was evidently the least undamaged carriage.
The images show that (looking towards the end that's in the air) the end bulkhead and left hand door area is caved in. There's several sitting in store that are clean. So even if the frame is undamaged, I can see it becoming a christmas tree and then scrapped.
 

Bletchleyite

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Scotrail will definitely need to find a solution as in essence they are one set down now.

I wonder if the First Class/Buffet car is beyond economic repair as it was evidently the least undamaged carriage.

I would expect they'll scrap the lot and convert a new one. The base vehicles aren't expensive in railway terms, it's nothing like the situation if the same thing had happened to, say, a brand new 80x.
 

XCTurbostar

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We are all, of course, assuming that a replacement set is required for ScotRail..
In terms of fleet spares under normal conditions, does the TOC have a number of hot spare TS’s in the event of a maintenance swap or are these considered fixed and treated like a multiple unit?
 

LOL The Irony

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We are all, of course, assuming that a replacement set is required for ScotRail..
In terms of fleet spares under normal conditions, does the TOC have a number of hot spare TS’s in the event of a maintenance swap or are these considered fixed and treated like a multiple unit?
There was a spare 225 set, but Hatfield and Great Heck nuked that idea from orbit. So they may have a spare set now, but a crash here, a dropped set there and your spare set no longer exists.
 

DB

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The images show that (looking towards the end that's in the air) the end bulkhead and left hand door area is caved in. There's several sitting in store that are clean. So even if the frame is undamaged, I can see it becoming a christmas tree and then scrapped.

And there looks to be a lot of damage underneath. Almost certainly a write off.
 

Dave91131

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We are all, of course, assuming that a replacement set is required for ScotRail..
In terms of fleet spares under normal conditions, does the TOC have a number of hot spare TS’s in the event of a maintenance swap or are these considered fixed and treated like a multiple unit?

I don't believe any spare individual vehicles are or ever were intended to be part of the ScotRail fleet, unlike the GWR fleet which does contain some spare vehicles.

Despite the fairly frequent scrappings in recent months there are still a fairly large number of stored vehicles at both Ely and Long Marston, in addition (I believe) to the other 2 stood down classic ScotRail sets which I believe are at Dundee.

I'm sure we'll become aware of replacement vehicles, if there are to be any, in the fullness of time.
 

Scotrail314209

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Power car availability should be fine as there are normally a bunch sitting around at Haymarket. Scotrail don’t have any spare MK3s.

I think they’d be able to contract Kilmarnock or Doncaster to do an extra set to replace HA22. I’m not sure if they can use a classic set as a short term replacement, do they still have a derogation?
 

DB

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Power car availability should be fine as there are normally a bunch sitting around at Haymarket. Scotrail don’t have any spare MK3s.

I think they’d be able to contract Kilmarnock or Doncaster to do an extra set to replace HA22. I’m not sure if they can use a classic set as a short term replacement, do they still have a derogation?

They might have enough power cars at the moment, but long term they will probably need a replacement.
 

scotraildriver

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When finished there are 26 sets of coaches and 54 power cars so only 2 spares and now 1 has been lost. I'd think we may need another couple.
 

InvHst

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Pretty sure Scotrail have loads of spares sitting around at Haymarket, availability should be okay.
Power car availability should be fine as there are normally a bunch sitting around at Haymarket. Scotrail don’t have any spare MK3s.

I think they’d be able to contract Kilmarnock or Doncaster to do an extra set to replace HA22. I’m not sure if they can use a classic set as a short term replacement, do they still have a derogation?

No chance they don't have enough hst powercars we only had 2 spare to start with and some have quite a lot of maintenance to make them service ready. No idea the plan and we won't find out for quite a while
 

gingertom

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No chance they don't have enough hst powercars we only had 2 spare to start with and some have quite a lot of maintenance to make them service ready. No idea the plan and we won't find out for quite a while
I'd hope the set would be replaced. It would be sensible to put another couple of power cars through Brush for the mods. It would be handy if more Mk3s came from the East Coast sets as they were in better nick than the GWs, but these belong to the wrong leasing company. I'm sure that could be fixed but unlikely- been said upthread there's plenty of ex-GW stock at Ely or Long Marston.
 

yorkie

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Let's see what happens; if anyone wishes to post any ideas/suggestions, please ensure these are posted in the Speculative Ideas section, thanks.
 

marks87

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Only yesterday another rake went off to Sims as well, so that's another six or so lost, some of which could have been used as replacements.

Is it too much to hope that when coaches such as this are sent for scrap (i.e. ones whose type are still being used in some form on the network), it’s done based on condition?

So worst condition first; best (relatively speaking) condition last...
 

92002

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Only yesterday another rake went off to Sims as well, so that's another six or so lost, some of which could have been used as replacements.
Scot-Rail have 8 coaches from the classic sets still at Dundee. The other 4 are at Slateford. Although it has been reported they are heavily stripped internally and due to go for scrap this week.
So it would be sensible to use some of the Dundee coaches for another conversion to replace the set from Carmont.

Still quite a number of other coaches at Ely as well as power cars. When all sets are converted Scot-Rail should have 2 spare power cars. Although not all sets yet converted so currently a good number of spares in various states of repair.
 
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