ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[najaB]

From Twitter; https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/1347630473204420612 Now being assisted to Inverness....

In the Twitter thread someone said that the passengers had no heat or light. Can anyone confirm if this was the case? If so, it must've got pretty close to freezing on board.

 

[DB]

In the Twitter thread someone said that the passengers had no heat or light. Can anyone confirm if this was the case? If so, it must've got pretty close to freezing on board.

That would require both power cars to be dead or at least unable to supply power, and for there to be no light at all the coach batteries would need to be dead too.

 

[najaB]

That would require both power cars to be dead or at least unable to supply power, and for there to be no light at all the coach batteries would need to be dead too.

That's what I was thinking too. Though, how long do the coach batteries last as the train was almost nine hours late into Inverness?

 

[43096]

That's what I was thinking too. Though, how long do the coach batteries last as the train was almost nine hours late into Inverness?

Depends on the condition of the batteries!

Often an HST that is a complete dead duck is down to brake issues, rather than electrical which appears to be the case here. The logical starting point is checking ETS and 36-way connections, then try each power car individually, then split the train electrically (drop the jumpers) to try to find the fault.

It really shouldn't be taking well over 7hrs to sort something like that - which suggests inexperience was also a factor.

 

[Stathern Jc]

Is there any means of using radio contact to pass a message along the lines of "We've tried the obvious, but it just ain't working. What have we missed?"? The Tomatin loop and Moy would have contact even if not all places between.
I know mobile phone signals can be patchy in parts of the HML.

 

[najaB]

The Tomatin loop and Moy would have contact even if not all places between.
I know mobile phone signals can be patchy in parts of the HML.

Are there signal post phones at the loops?

 

[Ben.A.98]

Are there signal post phones at the loops?

Yes, phones at every stop signal. Wouldn't have said the phone signal was that bad round here.

 

[najaB]

Yes, phones at every stop signal.

Thanks. Thought there would be.

 

[IanXC]

Is there any means of using radio contact to pass a message along the lines of "We've tried the obvious, but it just ain't working. What have we missed?"? The Tomatin loop and Moy would have contact even if not all places between.
I know mobile phone signals can be patchy in parts of the HML.

It'd have to be very, very bad luck to come to a stand twice in different GSM-R blackspots (which in themselves are very very rare).

 

[mcmad]

Believe a fitter had to attend at Tomatin, got something going and then it failed again and had to be assisted to Inverness.

 

[InvHst]

1h15 both powercars failed as reported here it failed on a single line section of track. Fitter attended and got it into loop at Tomatin where a longer term fix was looked at 1941 ex Edinburgh was held short of the set incase needed to rescue. Got it patched headed for moy and the fault reoccurred so they used 1941 ex Edinburgh to push at a severely reduced speed into Inverness

 

[marks87]

1h15 both powercars failed as reported here it failed on a single line section of track. Fitter attended and got it into loop at Tomatin where a longer term fix was looked at 1941 ex Edinburgh was held short of the set incase needed to rescue. Got it patched headed for moy and the fault reoccurred so they used 1941 ex Edinburgh to push at a severely reduced speed into Inverness

Is the speed limit still 20mph if an HST assists another HST from the front?

If so, presumably it's even lower when pushing from the rear?

 

[47827]

I can't recall the exact speed of assistance but around about 1996/97 I was using the XC Dundee to Penzance hst in Devon and one of the power cars lost power. It couldn't get up Rattery so the Great Western service behind coupled up via the emergency bar and pushed us to Plymouth where both trains terminated. I think the XC train was a couple of hours late by then but the incident wasn't as bad as the one described in this thread. I would guess, from memory we didn't exceed about 40mph but that was just what it felt like at the time and don't know the current rules on this procedure. Would be interested to know passenger numbers on the failed Scotrail set plus rescue hst and what conditions were like on board the failed one having endured many railway incidents in the past.

 

[Speed43125]

Has anyone seen 43185 lately? How far have they got with stripping it?

Has been gotten rid of and another 43 brought into Haymarket to replace it. The shell was donated, I cannot remember where or to who I'm afraid.

 

[scotraildriver]

Has been gotten rid of and another 43 brought into Haymarket to replace it. The shell was donated, I cannot remember where or to who I'm afraid.

That was 43018. 185 is still at Haymarket and was intact when I saw it just before Christmas. Externally anyway. There were rumours it was going to be refurbished to replace 140 but who knows.

 

[najaB]

In the Twitter thread someone said that the passengers had no heat or light. Can anyone confirm if this was the case? If so, it must've got pretty close to freezing on board.

Any update on the nature of the fault? Were the passengers (assuming there were some) left in the cold and dark?

 

[43 302]

That was 43018. 185 is still at Haymarket and was intact when I saw it just before Christmas. Externally anyway. There were rumours it was going to be refurbished to replace 140 but who knows.

43018 donated parts internally and is now at Crew Heritage centre being restored as a static exhibit. It has had the old headlight clusters already fitted and it looks very good in my opinion. 43185 has been at HA since November and is also a spare parts donor. ScotRail are not replacing 43140. I am unsure on 43030.

 

[Speed43125]

That was 43018. 185 is still at Haymarket and was intact when I saw it just before Christmas. Externally anyway. There were rumours it was going to be refurbished to replace 140 but who knows.

Ah! sorry, got the two mixed up.

There's no shortage of power cars anyway, it's the trailers that we may be short of.

 

[Azzy49]

Has anyone seen 43185 lately? How far have they got with stripping it?

Oh I didn't hear about this. Can't wait for the new Scotrail Livery with the change over next year in March. With things slowing down because of lockdown etc I don't think all of the 2+5 HST Sets will get painted and refurbished as more are to be in service than the 2+4 Sets.

 

[ER158715]

What new livery? The current liveries will not be getting replaced as these are Transport Scotland specified liveries. All that will change is the small sticker on the doors telling you who they are operated by.

 

[Goldromans]

I don't think all of the 2+5 HST Sets will get painted and refurbished as more are to be in service than the 2+4 Sets

I highly doubt this. Once things pick up again, the space (wether for distancing or passengers) will be needed.

 

[hexagon789]

Oh I didn't hear about this. Can't wait for the new Scotrail Livery with the change over next year in March. With things slowing down because of lockdown etc I don't think all of the 2+5 HST Sets will get painted and refurbished as more are to be in service than the 2+4 Sets.

What new livery?

And they're only doing 17 trailers to make the 2+5s not full sets so I don't see the issue with refurbing/painting?

 

[ER158715]

Indeed. The first of the additional TSL coaches were due in the next 4-6 weeks.

 

[OmniCity999]

Oh I didn't hear about this. Can't wait for the new Scotrail Livery with the change over next year in March. With things slowing down because of lockdown etc I don't think all of the 2+5 HST Sets will get painted and refurbished as more are to be in service than the 2+4 Sets.

you brought this up last week and were given the same responses...

there wont be a new livery.

the current livery has been set by Transport Scotland and it will stay.

The Franchisee doesnt have control of the livery.

 

[Gonzoiku]

Any update on the nature of the fault? Were the passengers (assuming there were some) left in the cold and dark?

Not much more detail here:

Train breakdown nightmare left passengers stuck in ‘freezing’ carriages for almost eight hours

A NIGHTMARE breakdown left rail passengers stuck in “freezing” conditions for eight hours in the middle of the night - “without food or heating”.

www.inverness-courier.co.uk

"A NIGHTMARE breakdown left rail passengers stranded in “freezing” conditions for eight hours in the middle of the night - “without food, blankets or heating”.

ScotRail has apologised after its 3.08pm Glasgow-Inverness service broke down near Carrbridge on Friday - and didn’t limp into the Highland capital until around 2am, more than seven-and-a-half hours late.

Angry Highlander Mike Grady branded the situation “a disgrace” after passengers were left with no food or heat in the middle of winter.

Speaking on behalf of a passenger he was meant to pick up from Inverness, but who was stuck on the train, he branded the incident a “total shambles”, adding: “The train was marooned outside Carrbridge in freezing conditions [from] 6.30pm. Beyond belief that in this pandemic passengers were trapped 15 miles from a city without food, blankets or any heating.

“Scotrail should be stripped of this franchise, [they’re] not fit to run a rail service and you could not even call Inverness station and speak to a human and the arrivals board showed nothing - a disgrace.”

Apologising for the epic delay, ScotRail explained that the fault was caused by a loss of power on the train between Aviemore and Inverness, which was the result of a fault between two carriages."

It appears that ScotRail excelled by having the Station Manager himself meet the train on arrival at Inverness (at 0216).No doubt the apologies were effusive.

No mention of the 3 hour delay to passengers on the assisting train, nor of the cancellation of the sleeper etc etc

GZ

PS "fault between two carriages"

 

[43096]

Not much more detail here:

Train breakdown nightmare left passengers stuck in ‘freezing’ carriages for almost eight hours

A NIGHTMARE breakdown left rail passengers stuck in “freezing” conditions for eight hours in the middle of the night - “without food or heating”.

www.inverness-courier.co.uk

It appears that ScotRail excelled by having the Station Manager himself meet the train on arrival at Inverness (at 0216).No doubt the apologies were effusive.

No mention of the 3 hour delay to passengers on the assisting train, nor of the cancellation of the sleeper etc etc

GZ

PS "fault between two carriages"

So back to my previous posting, this was a basic failure of competence. It should never take 7 hours to sort this type of failure. I’d question the training that has been given to ScotRail’s engineering staff.

 

[47827]

The 73s rostered to take the sleeper out should have been sent down as soon as the driver turned up for the shunt move if control used their training and experience to effect. The hst potentially could have been dragged into Inverness by about 2100/2130 then rather than 02xx. May have been a chance of still running the sleeper then too, albeit it a couple of hours late of Inverness.

 

[43096]

The 73s rostered to take the sleeper out should have been sent down as soon as the driver turned up for the shunt move if control used their training and experience to effect. The hst potentially could have been dragged into Inverness by about 2100/2130 then rather than 02xx. May have been a chance of still running the sleeper then too, albeit it a couple of hours late of Inverness.

Agreed. Just one caveat on that: since the 73s got the drophead Dellner couplers, can they still couple to the HST bar coupler?

 

[marks87]

Agreed. Just one caveat on that: since the 73s got the drophead Dellner couplers, can they still couple to the HST bar coupler?

The 73s still have their drop draw hooks, so they should still be able to couple to an HST.

 

[43096]

The 73s still have their drop hooks, so they should still be able to couple to an HST.

I know but certainly historically not all drawhooks were compatible with the HST bar coupler. Hence the question.