ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[supervc-10]

here's a pic (not mine) of an example

https://www.flickr.com/photos/72334387@N03/24172996847

The GNER livery still looks modern and classy, light years ahead of most things on the network!

 

[hexagon789]

HST sets. The TGS vehicles were fitted with buffers and drophead buckeye couplers, though I've never understood why this was necessary as a 91 can couple to an HST vehicle using its buckeye.

Not all the TGS used with the 91s actually received buffers, 91s did run with some only equipped with their buckeye (Alliance) couplers.

Eight were converted to run with 91s during the modification process it was was decided the conventional buffing gear was not required

Five TGS had the guard's end fitted with buffers, TDM jumpers and a drophead buckeye

The next TGS converted had no buffers just a standard HST alliance coupling and had TDM jumpers both sides

The last two conversions also had no buffing gear just a standard HST Alliance coupling and these had only one TDM jumper provided on one side only.

These last three were labelled: "Connect to Class 43 or 91 locomotive only - Call Control (on number) for authorisation to connect to any other locomotive type".

TGS vehicles - 44021, 056, 058, 059, 086, 097, 098 and 101 were the ones modified to run with Class 91s, same list you have there, though I don't know which individual TGS received which of the various stages of treatment.

 

[43096]

Not all the TGS used with the 91s actually received buffers, 91s did run with some only equipped with their buckeye (Alliance) couplers.

Eight were converted to run with 91s during the modification process it was was decided the conventional buffing gear was not required

Five TGS had the guard's end fitted with buffers, TDM jumpers and a drophead buckeye

The next TGS converted had no buffers just a standard HST alliance coupling and had TDM jumpers both sides

The last two conversions also had no buffing gear just a standard HST Alliance coupling and these had only one TDM jumper provided on one side only.

These last three were labelled: "Connect to Class 43 or 91 locomotive only - Call Control (on number) for authorisation to connect to any other locomotive type".

TGS vehicles - 44021, 056, 058, 059, 086, 097, 098 and 101 were the ones modified to run with Class 91s, same list you have there, though I don't know which individual TGS received which of the various stages of treatment.

Thanks. The giveaway as to which had buffers would be evidence on the bufferbeam after they were removed, either holes where they were fixed or something plated over.

So the question then is why does 44077 have RCH jumpers, as per the photo I linked to earlier?

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks. The giveaway as to which had buffers would be evidence on the bufferbeam after they were removed, either holes where they were fixed or something plated over.

So the question then is why does 44077 have RCH jumpers, as per the photo I linked to earlier?

A good question because as far as I can ascertain it was not one of those modified for use with 91s.

 

[Azzy49]

here's a pic (not mine) of an example

https://www.flickr.com/photos/72334387@N03/24172996847

Thank you, that's a very interesting Pic and nice to see old Memories for a change. As a younger Boy I only ever remember going on a GNER HST 3 times. Yet to go on a Scotrail set.

 

[InOban]

There appears to be a set going south on Monday. I assume the sets will be sent down in turn to have their 5th vehicle added . No path yet for the return North.

 

[Goldromans]

There appears to be a set going south on Monday. I assume the sets will be sent down in turn to have their 5th vehicle added . No path yet for the return North.

I assume it won’t need to stay long as the coach should already have been tested?

 

[InOban]

Realtime Trains - FRGT 1026 Doncaster Works Wabtec to Haymarket Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The northbound working has now been loaded into RTT. I wonder whether this might actually be the final set with its 5 coaches and the set going south on Monday could remain to collect an extra vehicle. It would make sense for all the sets to be tested with 5 vehicles at Wabtec.

 

[Steven_G]

I don’t follow. The last complete which is also the first 5 car set hasn’t been delivered yet.

you wouldn’t send a set down to add a car to it surely? Logic says you would send up half the single additional cars in one 9 carriage set then split them up at Haymarket. No?

 

[DB]

It would make sense for all the sets to be tested with 5 vehicles at Wabtec.

It really wouldn't. Provided the extra carriages have been tested themselves it should just be a case of slotting them in - HST Mk3s are just independent unpowered trailers - they aren't like modern units (or Mk5 sets) which have a TMS which needs reconfiguring. Sending every set down to Doncaster is just a waste of time and fuel.

 

[InOban]

You may well be right. We'll see what comes up on Tuesday.
But why then send down a complete set (125mph schedule) rather than just two power cars (75mph schedule)?

 

[najaB]

You may well be right. We'll see what comes up on Tuesday.
But why then send down a complete set (125mph schedule) rather than just two power cars (75mph schedule)?

They could be collecting multiple but less than nine - e.g. send down a 2+4 come back with 2+9.

 

[Goldromans]

They could be collecting multiple but less than nine - e.g. send down a 2+4 come back with 2+9.

It wound certainly make more sense. Surely more than one coach must be ready by now?

 

[43096]

They could be collecting multiple but less than nine - e.g. send down a 2+4 come back with 2+9.

Why send down a 2+4, in that case? Just send a pair of power cars and take the five TS vehicles back.

 

[najaB]

Why send down a 2+4, in that case? Just send a pair of power cars and take the five TS vehicles back.

It's probably a bit easier to path it at 125mph than 75mph, plus maybe they need the carriage with the office for the door controls (can't remember the correct designation)?

 

[43096]

It's probably a bit easier to path it at 125mph than 75mph, plus maybe they need the carriage with the office for the door controls (can't remember the correct designation)?

There's already a full set at Doncaster they test the coaches with for door controls. In any case, every vehicle has door controls.

 

[najaB]

There's already a full set at Doncaster they test the coaches with for door controls. In any case, every vehicle has door controls.

I didn't mean the physical buttons, isn't the control box in the guard's office?

 

[43096]

I didn't mean the physical buttons, isn't the control box in the guard's office?

Not sure what you mean? Every vehicle has a guard's operating panel for the doors (actually, one at each end, opposite sides). Are you referring to the ripper unit that translates the buzzer codes from the CDL circuits into the 36-way jumpers? That's located in the TGS* on the original sets with CDL, I'm not sure what's been done on the sliding door sets.

* in the buffet I think on the Grand Central sets

 

[najaB]

Not sure what you mean? Every vehicle has a guard's operating panel for the doors (actually, one at each end, opposite sides).

Yes, but control panels are all wired back to a central logic box which, if memory serves correct, is in the guard's office. No?

 

[43096]

Yes, but control panels are all wired back to a central logic box which, if memory serves correct, is in the guard's office. No?

See my edit above!

 

[Devon Sunset]

As I understand it the final set is coming up as a 2+8 with the extra coaches being slotted into their allocated sets at Haymarket. There are also some sets to return to Wabtec for remedial work so that explains the one going the other way.

 

[InOban]

I knew that eventually someone with inside information would appear! I just reported what was on RTT and the rest was just me speculating.

 

[marks87]

As I understand it the final set is coming up as a 2+8...

If it runs, then all eyes on York Railcam at 11.25 for this rare sight.

 

[Azzy49]

If it runs, then all eyes on York Railcam at 11.25 for this rare sight.

Will be a sight to see for sure!

 

[Scotrail88]

Does anyone know how many seats are in the 5th carriage??

 

[OmniCity999]

Does anyone know how many seats are in the 5th carriage??

Spoiler: Frequently Requested Information

Operated Routes
Glasgow/Edinburgh to Aberdeen/Inverness
Aberdeen to Inverness

Fife Circle (2020/21 winter timetable only)

Refurbishment Details
See original thread post below

Refurbished Sets Delivery Progress




Refurbishment Progress


Fleet Status


Time Scale
Severely Delayed. 25 four-car sets now completed as of 28/11/2020, one remaining set to be delivered. Unclear if Carmont derailment set will be replaced.

Fleet Numberings
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/HST+ScotRail+Fleet

Diagrams
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-inter7city-hst-diagrams.171933/

Power Car Liveries
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+43+Inter7City+Relivery

Specific Discussions
Onboard Catering
Diagrams
Power Car Naming
Trip Reports

Alternatives to HSTs:
General Discussion
Class 68 LHCS
Class 222s
Class 800s

A close friend of mine came across a set of documents lying on the table in a staff bothy regarding in-depth details of the refurbishment plan for the ScotRail HST fleet.
I can't find any released PDFs online nor on this forum, so I've started this thread dedicated to the ScotRail HST arrival and refurbishment.

Here's the details within the documents which I've taken the time to type up, and I've have attached the images from them which contain renders, seating plans, and statistics charts;

Apologies, i assumed the images would be there, post 1 of this thread details everything.

 

[scotraildriver]

A good few sets returning to Wabtec for warranty work so it's just as easy to insert their 5th coaches at the time. Leaking roofs, HVAC issues, vestibule doors, jumper cables, door modifications to name a few.

 

[SC318250]

The run from Doncaster to Haymarket Depot is routed via Edinburgh sub and Haymarket platform 0. Will a 2+8 fit in platform 0 at Haymarket or will it be diverted through Waverley?

 

[najaB]

The run from Doncaster to Haymarket Depot is routed via Edinburgh sub and Haymarket platform 0. Will a 2+8 fit in platform 0 at Haymarket or will it be diverted through Waverley?

If it can't fit in platform 0 surely it can be routed to platform 1 or 2, no?

 

[InvHst]

If it can't fit in platform 0 surely it can be routed to platform 1 or 2, no?

1 might cause a challenge since its a main passenger platform