ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

Falcon1200

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Interesting that we might not notice there's strike action on every Sunday just now - back at the start of the dispute ScotRail were very keen to let all and sundry know that it was all the fault of the RMT for asking for more money and weren't slow to use their social media to influence the public against the union.

They seemed to stop when it finally twigged that they were getting pelters for it.

Departure boards at stations are still showing the dispute; And surely Scotrail have a duty to warn prospective passengers of possible disruption to their plans ?

And the dispute is because the RMT is indeed asking for more money (for some staff) after all !
 
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mcmad

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Departure boards at stations are still showing the dispute; And surely Scotrail have a duty to warn prospective passengers of possible disruption to their plans ?

And the dispute is because the RMT is indeed asking for more money (for some staff) after all !
I thought the dispute was because Scotrail extended an agreement for some staff and not others?
 

scotrail158713

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What annoys me the most about this is that replacement buses are running to hospitals - are the rest of us passengers irrelevant?
 

Deltic1961

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I'm sure if they were forced to pay for replacement buses to cover all missing services the strike would be solved soon enough.

As another poster already said the fact Scotrail actually save money not running Sunday services is great for them. Customers are merely an inconvenience.
 

snookertam

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Departure boards at stations are still showing the dispute; And surely Scotrail have a duty to warn prospective passengers of possible disruption to their plans ?

And the dispute is because the RMT is indeed asking for more money (for some staff) after all !

They were also framing it in a way that painted the union as unreasonable, especially in light of the pandemic. They’re free to believe that of course, but their social media accounts tend to be used by the public seeking info on services. They were using their Twitter to post inflammatory statements about their staff multiple times a day.
 

Falcon1200

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They were also framing it in a way that painted the union as unreasonable, especially in light of the pandemic. They’re free to believe that of course, but their social media accounts tend to be used by the public seeking info on services. They were using their Twitter to post inflammatory statements about their staff multiple times a day.

Agree that is wrong, all they need to say is that there is an ongoing dispute with the RMT and leave it at that.
 

Deltic1961

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There were some tweets (now deleted it seems) where a company gave Scotrail a gold award for customer service, somethig to do with monitoring social feeds then bringing up any salient points at the daily meetings to be discussed by management and shape company policy.
I sent in a complaint as it plainly wasn't the case regarding those horrible tweets that went on for quite some time. A week later they stopped so they must have got the message.
I felt sorry for the social media staff having to deal with all the negative responses when it looked like the tweets regarding the strike were being sent automatically rather than by the social media staff on duty.
 

Bodiddly

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Gateline staff now joining the dispute with action short of a strike. They just failed the threshold for strike action.
 

Harold Hill

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Millions have been adversely affected Covid-19 lockdowns, many have lost their jobs and businesses. We've all had our lives badly disrupted yet Scotrail employees decide to go on strike. No sympathy
 

43066

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Millions have been adversely affected Covid-19 lockdowns, many have lost their jobs and businesses. We've all had our lives badly disrupted yet Scotrail employees decide to go on strike. No sympathy

Actually they have voted *not* to go on strike, if you read the bulletin above.

“Refusing to work rest days” is a bit of a misnomer as many rail-staff choose never work any rest days, and it cuts both ways: the TOC is not obligated to provide overtime/RDW anymore than the staff are obligated to work it.
 

John Bishop

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Gateline staff now joining the dispute with action short of a strike. They just failed the threshold for strike action.
Brilliant! Less gateline checks, less revenue income at a time when we need every penny we can get, more savings/ cuts required in the future. Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas!
 

kez19

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Thanks. Not really sure why the RMT should expect Abellio to budge.

Welcome! I’m not sure either but I see it up where I am on a Sunday that there isn’t any Scotrail service apart from other operators.
 

320320

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Brilliant! Less gateline checks, less revenue income at a time when we need every penny we can get, more savings/ cuts required in the future. Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas!
Hilarious! A driver, who’s probably paid at least three times that of gate line staff having the audacity to berate them for fighting to be treated the same way as drivers are in regards to Sunday and RDW enhancements.

Thats a disgraceful stance to be taking in regard to your lower paid and obviously lesser valued colleagues.
 

John Bishop

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Hilarious! A driver, who’s probably paid at least three times that of gate line staff having the audacity to berate them for fighting to be treated the same way as drivers are in regards to Sunday and RDW enhancements.

Thats a disgraceful stance to be taking in regard to your lower paid and obviously lesser valued colleagues.
320, you’ve completely missed my point.
I never said anything about regarding them as lesser valued. I also have no issue with any grade fighting to enhance their lot, but there’s a time and place for picking your battles for enhancing your terms and conditions, but now is really not the time to be doing it whether it’s drivers or any other grade.

If what’s being circulated is to be believed, then there is going to have to be some tough decisions being made in the industry going forward, and these are the grades and roles potentially at greatest risk.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the drivers enhancement will be dropped as soon as the numbers are there, just like the conductors deal which came to an end.
 

snookertam

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320, you’ve completely missed my point.
I never said anything about regarding them as lesser valued. I also have no issue with any grade fighting to enhance their lot, but there’s a time and place for picking your battles for enhancing your terms and conditions, but now is really not the time to be doing it whether it’s drivers or any other grade.

If what’s being circulated is to be believed, then there is going to have to be some tough decisions being made in the industry going forward, and these are the grades and roles potentially at greatest risk.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the drivers enhancement will be dropped as soon as the numbers are there, just like the conductors deal which came to an end.

The industry will dispose of those grades regardless of whether they strike or not. In fact, the only possible chance of preserving the grades, and those jobs, is by withdrawing their labour now and causing maximum disruption. If they don't, they will sleep walk into oblivion.

ScotRail have just launched mobile ticketing. Very convenient for the public, but inevitably will see the end of station grades in almost all but major stations. Conductor roles are likely on their way out as well - ScotRail's refusal to even negotiate with the union when it comes to conductor and Ticket Examiner pay, as opposed to it's willingness to cede to driver demands tells you all you need to know about their attitude towards each grade.

As an aside, if what you are saying is correct and there are 'tough decisions' to be made, then we might see the current service patterns remaining in place for the foreseeable. I remember being mocked last year at my concerns over this very outcome. It isn't just ScotRail or Abellio who are at fault here, the Scottish Government are in lockstep with them all the way, and it is they who will of course inherit the running of the franchise.
 

Robertj21a

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The industry will dispose of those grades regardless of whether they strike or not. In fact, the only possible chance of preserving the grades, and those jobs, is by withdrawing their labour now and causing maximum disruption. If they don't, they will sleep walk into oblivion.

ScotRail have just launched mobile ticketing. Very convenient for the public, but inevitably will see the end of station grades in almost all but major stations. Conductor roles are likely on their way out as well - ScotRail's refusal to even negotiate with the union when it comes to conductor and Ticket Examiner pay, as opposed to it's willingness to cede to driver demands tells you all you need to know about their attitude towards each grade.

As an aside, if what you are saying is correct and there are 'tough decisions' to be made, then we might see the current service patterns remaining in place for the foreseeable. I remember being mocked last year at my concerns over this very outcome. It isn't just ScotRail or Abellio who are at fault here, the Scottish Government are in lockstep with them all the way, and it is they who will of course inherit the running of the franchise.
Why is it that Scotrail, Abellio and the Scottish government are..... 'at fault' ?
Many people would probably feel that, on this occasion, they may well be right in their approach.
 

320320

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119
320, you’ve completely missed my point.
I never said anything about regarding them as lesser valued. I also have no issue with any grade fighting to enhance their lot, but there’s a time and place for picking your battles for enhancing your terms and conditions, but now is really not the time to be doing it whether it’s drivers or any other grade.

If what’s being circulated is to be believed, then there is going to have to be some tough decisions being made in the industry going forward, and these are the grades and roles potentially at greatest risk.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the drivers enhancement will be dropped as soon as the numbers are there, just like the conductors deal which came to an end.
I’m pretty sure that the grades currently fighting to be treated equally to their colleagues couldn’t care less for your condescending and sneering opinion on their dispute.

If scotrail and the Scottish government were so worried about collecting revenue then they would have continued to pay the booking on payment on a Sunday rather than pay atrium court staff £350 to work those trains and lose an absolute fortune because they collect zero revenue.

Instead, it looks like a cynical attempt to use COVID as an excuse to attack staff terms and conditions and push through working practices that suit the company at the expense of the employees.

The industry will dispose of those grades regardless of whether they strike or not. In fact, the only possible chance of preserving the grades, and those jobs, is by withdrawing their labour now and causing maximum disruption. If they don't, they will sleep walk into oblivion.

ScotRail have just launched mobile ticketing. Very convenient for the public, but inevitably will see the end of station grades in almost all but major stations. Conductor roles are likely on their way out as well - ScotRail's refusal to even negotiate with the union when it comes to conductor and Ticket Examiner pay, as opposed to it's willingness to cede to driver demands tells you all you need to know about their attitude towards each grade.

As an aside, if what you are saying is correct and there are 'tough decisions' to be made, then we might see the current service patterns remaining in place for the foreseeable. I remember being mocked last year at my concerns over this very outcome. It isn't just ScotRail or Abellio who are at fault here, the Scottish Government are in lockstep with them all the way, and it is they who will of course inherit the running of the franchise.

I don’t think this is going to be the case at all, they currently couldn’t care less that the vast majority of services are cancelled on a Sunday so I don’t see them being being fazed by a driver dispute.

I can see this dispute running until April when the Scottish government are finally in the chair and are forced into some sort of action as they wont have anywhere left to hide.
 
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John Bishop

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I’m pretty sure that the grades currently fighting to be treated equally to their colleagues couldn’t care less for your condescending and sneering opinion on their dispute.

If scotrail and the Scottish government were so worried about collecting revenue then they would have continued to pay the booking on payment on a Sunday rather than pay atrium court staff £350 to work those trains and lose an absolute fortune because they collect zero revenue.

Instead, it looks like a cynical attempt to use COVID as an excuse to attack staff terms and conditions and push through working practices that suit the company at the expense of the employees.
What an idiotic and bizarre statement to make! This is a forum for people to discuss the issue in question. I’m not expecting anyone in the grade to care what I think, thats not why this forum is here is it! it’s my opinion on the matter which I’m perfectly entitled to post on here, just as everyone else is, but just as in previous threads, you don’t seem to like it If it goes against your own opinion. So I’m afraid your the one sounding condescending here my friend.

I think I know how this whole situation is going to play out, and if your honest, I’m sure you do as well.
 

snookertam

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Why is it that Scotrail, Abellio and the Scottish government are..... 'at fault' ?
Many people would probably feel that, on this occasion, they may well be right in their approach.

They provided the drivers with an enhanced overtime rate but have consciously decided not to do so with other grades. If they weren’t trying to provoke a dispute they’ve done a good impression of doing so.

As things stand at the moment those charged with running the rail service in Scotland appear quite happy for it to descend into the doldrums for the next few years. Current reduced service patterns are likely to remain for the rest of this year and possibly beyond. The default position in response to any challenges is currently to cut back and reduce as opposed to building out of it through encouraging passengers back.
 

InOban

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The deal initially included guards (and possibly others). It was specifically intended to cover staff shortages until the training of new staff was completed. This didn't take long for the RMT grades, so the deal ended. Training of drivers obviously takes much longer, so the deal continues. The RMT have no case.
 

Deltic1961

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It's bizarre considering the money being spent on stations and track work. The Aberdeen to Inverurie redoubling was around £350 million alone (and there's still congestion because the Woolmanhill tunnel to station was left single track).

Not so long ago there was a major push to get people on to trains, but now it seems nobody cares less. This isn't going to end well.
 

Carntyne

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The deal initially included guards (and possibly others). It was specifically intended to cover staff shortages until the training of new staff was completed. This didn't take long for the RMT grades, so the deal ended. Training of drivers obviously takes much longer, so the deal continues. The RMT have no case.
This. The RMT asked for more conductor and ticket examiners to be recruited, to reduce their member's reliance on overtime and to provide them a better work-life balance. Now that that's happened and the agreement ended, they're complaining that it's been done.
 

Falcon1200

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The industry will dispose of those grades regardless of whether they strike or not. In fact, the only possible chance of preserving the grades, and those jobs, is by withdrawing their labour now and causing maximum disruption. If they don't, they will sleep walk into oblivion.

I find it very sad, and concerning, that people believe the best way to protect their jobs is by causing 'maximum disruption' to their customers, and therefore cost to their business; Some of those unable to use the railway during disputes, forced to find alternative means, never return.

They provided the drivers with an enhanced overtime rate but have consciously decided not to do so with other grades. If they weren’t trying to provoke a dispute they’ve done a good impression of doing so.

That's not the whole story though. A temporary enhanced O/T rate was provided to relevant grades during a time of severe staff shortage, the shortage in certain grades has now been overcome so the enhanced rate is no longer required or justifiable.

The deal initially included guards (and possibly others). It was specifically intended to cover staff shortages until the training of new staff was completed. This didn't take long for the RMT grades, so the deal ended. Training of drivers obviously takes much longer, so the deal continues. The RMT have no case.

Exactly. At some point the enhanced rate for Drivers will end too and they will return to the same overtime payments as Guards. What happens then, will the RMT continue this campaign ?
 

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