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ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

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HamworthyGoods

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Yes. Because that's what was agreed by the RMT. If all vacancies were filled the agreement was that Sundays would become flat rate. And that's what happened. It will happen to drivers too, once all the trainees are productive.

So if Scotrail have implemented the deal RMT asked for, what’s the dispute about or is it simply RMT have changed their mind and have decided they don’t like the deal?
 
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Wyrleybart

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But there were endless NUR & RMT strikes under BR & BR was nationalised.

So Kite is wrong in implying RMT won't complain & won't strike when Abellio is gone.
In fact the RMT(& ASLEF) will have more leverage by threatening directly elected Scottish politicians.
I wouldn't like to bet on anything a the moment. The Treasury know the industry is costing billions of pounds to continue to deliver a sometimes lacklustre service, despite some very juicy staff salaries.
That will change and I hope enough railway staff are awake and aware,in amongst those whose heads are still in the sand.

Covid has done more for the Williams report than Keith ever intended.
 

24Grange

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But there were endless NUR & RMT strikes under BR & BR was nationalised.

So Kite is wrong in implying RMT won't complain & won't strike when Abellio is gone.
In fact the RMT(& ASLEF) will have more leverage by threatening directly elected Scottish politicians.
That sounds lovely :) I think the miners tried that. (Politicians generally, not specifically Scottish ones).
 

Scotrail314209

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Is this ever going to end? Speaking from a passengers stance.

Granted I've got lucky and still get the DOO services, but to get anywhere else in Scotland it's nigh on impossible. I'd imagine Scottish Citylink will be making quite a lot of money with people turning to the coach.
 

Robertj21a

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Is this ever going to end? Speaking from a passengers stance.

Granted I've got lucky and still get the DOO services, but to get anywhere else in Scotland it's nigh on impossible. I'd imagine Scottish Citylink will be making quite a lot of money with people turning to the coach.
Hopefully, the problem will gradually ease in future years when they achieve greater DOO......
 

alangla

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Even at that, lines like the Argyle line & the Cathcart Circle have been closed on a Sunday throughout.
 

Deltic1961

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So can someone with no affiliation to either side please explain why there is a dispute and customers are losing out. Because from what I've read over the past 10 pages or so it seems there shouldn't even be one?
 

Journeyman

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So can someone with no affiliation to either side please explain why there is a dispute and customers are losing out. Because from what I've read over the past 10 pages or so it seems there shouldn't even be one?
It's basically a deliberate attempt by the RMT to destabilise the industry.
 

Journeyman

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So why haven't Scottish Government or Transport Scotland knocked it on the head then?
Because the industry is costing a fortune to run, and it's cheaper to wait until the staff decide to return to work, which they will eventually.
 

baz962

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That sounds lovely :) I think the miners tried that. (Politicians generally, not specifically Scottish ones).
But coal was on the way out. The railway is probably required for economic recovery and most definitely for greener transport. Apples and oranges.
 

Brissle Girl

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But coal was on the way out. The railway is probably required for economic recovery and most definitely for greener transport. Apples and oranges.
It wasn’t in the 80s. But the battles with the miners resulted in govt policy changing to ensure that the country would never be held to ransom by the miners again. And the main way that was achieved was the “dash to gas” with the rapid construction of gas fired power stations.
 

baz962

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I think you might find it started to decline in the sixties. In the middle of the century , there were 484 deep mines , 500,000 miners and 180 million tonnes in output. By the 70's this was 115 million tonnes and half the amount of deep mines at 240 and 300,000 miners. Although that is still a lot , it had massively declined. By 1984/5 and the time of the strikes , it was 133 deep mines and 180,000 miners.
 

Brissle Girl

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I think you might find it started to decline in the sixties. In the middle of the century , there were 484 deep mines , 500,000 miners and 180 million tonnes in output. By the 70's this was 115 million tonnes and half the amount of deep mines at 240 and 300,000 miners. Although that is still a lot , it had massively declined. By 1984/5 and the time of the strikes , it was 133 deep mines and 180,000 miners.
Indeed, but it was the resolve of the then PM that accelerated the decline in so far as demand related to the electricity supply industry. And at a local level, I doubt it was a coincidence that our school boilers were converted from coal to oil in the mid 1970s, immediately after the first round of strikes which resulted in the 3 day week.
 

Robertj21a

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Ah, 3-day weeks, strikes, flying pickets....

We never had it so good in those 'Good Old Days'

:E
 

Watershed

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It's illegal to fire striking workers.
After 12 weeks of dispute, the relevant employment law protections cease. That period has now passed, so in principle Scotrail could quite lawfully dismiss all the guards that have participated in the industrial action.
 

alangla

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If RMT members won't turn up to work, what can they do?
Depends how brave they’re feeling. They could bin the Strathclyde manning agreement and take on the unions head-on, but that may well lead to the sort of all out strike that would mean nothing apart from the SPT electrics ran for a prolonged period. It seems there’s 3 options, either give the Union part or all of what they want, do something like the above or do nothing & just grind on hoping more of them come back to work & the current lowered demand means no-one notices that we’ve got a 6 day railway (and even at that the services that run are fewer than 2 years ago & IIRC, fewer than about this time last year), so no political pressure to resolve quickly.

I suspect we’ll be lucky to see widespread Sunday services this side of Christmas TBH.
 

PR1Berske

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Depends how brave they’re feeling. They could bin the Strathclyde manning agreement and take on the unions head-on, but that may well lead to the sort of all out strike that would mean nothing apart from the SPT electrics ran for a prolonged period. It seems there’s 3 options, either give the Union part or all of what they want, do something like the above or do nothing & just grind on hoping more of them come back to work & the current lowered demand means no-one notices that we’ve got a 6 day railway (and even at that the services that run are fewer than 2 years ago & IIRC, fewer than about this time last year), so no political pressure to resolve quickly.

I suspect we’ll be lucky to see widespread Sunday services this side of Christmas TBH.
A few replies up this thread asks if the RMT did get what it wanted, only to alter that after the fact. Is that what's happened?
 

Robertj21a

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It's basically a deliberate attempt by the RMT to destabilise the industry.
The real problem is that they still live in their 1980s utopia and the passing decades have not brought any significant changes to their approach to the real world outside. It's all rather reminiscent of the Scargill era when he thought he was more powerful than he was in practice.
Presumably, this saga is best left alone and the more pragmatic staff will see a way forward ?
 

320320

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There will have to be a re ballot after 6 months..........
Is that true? Some people think that’s only the case if the strike action hasn’t started within 6 months of the ballot and as that isn’t the case here, the original ballot is a mandate for continual strike action.
 
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