ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[43066]

From what I’ve read in this thread, I think it’s the word ‘excessive’ that’s doing the heavy lifting. I don’t think there is any expectation that RDW has been eliminated, merely that it has been reduced to ‘normal’ levels. So Scotrail believe the conditions have been met that RDW should return to being paid at the standard rate rather than enhanced.

Sounds logical, and sensible.

As someone commented up thread it sounds like a poorly conceived, ambiguous agreement which is open to interpretation. Especially as the TOC is clearly 100% reliant on staff volunteering to come in on their days off.

 

[Robertj21a]

As someone commented up thread it sounds like a poorly conceived, ambiguous agreement which is open to interpretation. Especially as the TOC is clearly 100% reliant on staff volunteering to come in on their days off.

To an outsider it seems sensible. Inevitably, the Union will find an argument against it, somehow.

 

[Falcon1200]

Especially as the TOC is clearly 100% reliant on staff volunteering to come in on their days off.

If by 100% reliant you mean to run the Sunday service, I would not agree with that form of wording; When I joined BR in 1978, Sunday shifts were not part of the basic working week and therefore were paid as overtime shifts, but staff did not 'volunteer' for them; That was part of your roster and your job ! And when I retired from the railway 38 years later, that was still the case. Of course, no-one should be forced to work Sundays, but in that case.... don't take a job that requires you to work Sundays.

Rest Day Working is another issue, staff are entirely free to decide whether to work them or not. In an ideal world it would not be necessary, but so many things can cause staff shortages, sometimes with little or no notice, that employing sufficient spare staff to totally eliminate Rest Day Working is impossible.

 

[320320]

Aslef are meeting scotrail tomorrow with regards to the driver pay claim for 2021. If no offer is made or is unacceptable to the negotiating team then there will be a recommendation made to the executive committee to move forward with a ballot for industrial action and that there is no extension to the RDW agreement after 30/09/21.

Up until now the Scottish government have refused to authorise any pay awards for railway staff. If there Isn’t any movement then they’ll probably have to implement an emergency timetable to run some sort semi reliable service.

 

[380gk]

I see in the article it says its only extra payment for working rest days which is the problem. I thought it was extra payments for Sunday as well ?

Nope just Monday to Saturday. Sunday payments were part of a separate deal and that deal is still in place.

 

[Starmill]

It seems astonishingly unlikely that the government are going to fund a pay rise for train drivers. Especially when the market for rail travel has utterly tanked, and there is significant pressure on them to spend their way out of the crisis elsewhere. Indeed there is no pay rise for MSPs in 2021, and Scottish Ministers have received no pay rises since 2008.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If it all goes wrong they will just blame Westminster, like they do with everything else.



Seriously though I hope something constructive comes out of this rather than simply a fresh application of saltire liveried sticking plasters

The bus companies have made laudable and largely successful efforts to show just what they're made of during the lack of Sunday services at a time when we've all been told to stay close to home for holidays and short breaks. What they don't need if the railway is to survive and prosper is passengers simply being handed to them on a very large dinner plate by means of an emergency timetable and striking staff

 

[320320]

It seems astonishingly unlikely that the government are going to fund a pay rise for train drivers. Especially when the market for rail travel has utterly tanked, and there is significant pressure on them to spend their way out of the crisis elsewhere. Indeed there is no pay rise for MSPs in 2021, and Scottish Ministers have received no pay rises since 2008.

Scotrail have told aslef they’ll be making a ”conditions based offer” to drivers. Talks resuming this morning, so we should know whether there‘s going to be a ballot for industrial action by the end of today.

 

[Deltic1961]

Hilarious since there's a story on the BBC about the rail industry trying to encourage people back on to the trains. Gun pointed firmly at foot.

Here's a link to the article and comments.

Rail industry urges workers not to spurn the train

City centres and High Streets could suffer unless workers start taking the train again, the industry warns.

www.bbc.co.uk

Unless workers start taking the train again, there could be long-term adverse effects on city centres and High Streets, the rail industry has warned.
Train commuting is still just 33% of its pre-Covid rate, while car journeys have reached pre-pandemic levels, said the Rail Delivery Group (RDG).

 

[Robertj21a]

Scotrail have told aslef they’ll be making a ”conditions based offer” to drivers. Talks resuming this morning, so we should know whether there‘s going to be a ballot for industrial action by the end of today.

Let's hope common sense prevails and everybody appreciates that the world has changed quite a bit.

 

[Starmill]

Hilarious since there's a story on the BBC about the rail industry trying to encourage people back on to the trains. Gun pointed firmly at foot.

Here's a link to the article and comments.

Rail industry urges workers not to spurn the train

City centres and High Streets could suffer unless workers start taking the train again, the industry warns.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's an utterly weird article isn't it.

It's filled with negative messages.

"Unless workers start taking the train again, there could be long-term adverse effects on city centres and High Streets, the rail industry has warned."

The point which follows this is that there could be more air pollution.

Use our trains or else.

There's not a single good reason to use the railway in the article. Remember that to most commuters rail was very expensive and uncomfortable. It is implied by the article only giving negative reasons that the railway industry accepts that there aren't any positive reasons for daily commuters to use the train. It's a bit of a desperate money grab really.

 

[alangla]

The TRNSMT festival at Glasgow Green starts today. First real large-scale event in Scotland for 18 months. ScotRail have been tweeting out that extra coaches will be added to services past the venue, check your last train, etc etc. Obviously no services on Sunday, but for tonight? http://www.journeycheck.com/scotrail/
Loads of evening cancellations including last trains binned or, in the case of the last Queen Street to Perth, starting at Stirling, all due to shortage of crew.

Brilliant. Morning services today seem largely ok, it's just the afternoon & evening that seem to be suffering, which seems a bit odd to say the least.

 

[Goldfish62]

The bus companies have made laudable and largely successful efforts to show just what they're made of during the lack of Sunday services at a time when we've all been told to stay close to home for holidays and short breaks. What they don't need if the railway is to survive and prosper is passengers simply being handed to them on a very large dinner plate by means of an emergency timetable and striking staff

I'm glad the bus operators are taking advantage of the situation. They've had a far harder time over the past 18 months than the railways and survival going forward is certainly not guaranteed. Thank you to the railways for giving them a much-needed boost.

 

[Blindtraveler]

They really really have. I think they took a little while to gear up for it when restrictions began to slowly lift and there were no Sunday trains which of course was very poorly publicised at the time I'm because they didn't want people to travel because we were all supposed to be staying at home. Once they had grasped the nettle however they really have have although road conditions in parts of the Central belt in particular could be charitably described as a bit stodgy on Sunday afternoons particularly during the school holidays or if the sun comes out for any length of time I'm there are a lot of people who will have by necessity done a modal shift and probably won't shift back if ScotRail and other operators continue with the current anti passenger attitude or simply don't run the services that people want at a time that they need them at a price they are willing to pay

 

[David M]

The TRNSMT festival at Glasgow Green starts today. First real large-scale event in Scotland for 18 months. ScotRail have been tweeting out that extra coaches will be added to services past the venue, check your last train, etc etc. Obviously no services on Sunday, but for tonight? http://www.journeycheck.com/scotrail/
Loads of evening cancellations including last trains binned or, in the case of the last Queen Street to Perth, starting at Stirling, all due to shortage of crew.

As I understand it, there are bus replacements tomorrow from Edinburgh to Linlithgow for the Falkirk High line and from Edinburgh to Falkirk for the Cumbernauld line due to engineering works - might the unusual pattern of services be linked to this?

 

[alangla]

As I understand it, there are bus replacements tomorrow from Edinburgh to Linlithgow for the Falkirk High line and from Edinburgh to Falkirk for the Cumbernauld line due to engineering works - might the unusual pattern of services be linked to this?

Most of the cancellations are in SPT-land, largely from Central, so no, almost certainly not. That last Glasgow - Perth has been starting at Stirling the last few nights when I've looked at Journeycheck. I suspect it's more likely it's actually running empty from Glasgow & the guard is boarding at Stirling.

I also notice they've managed buses for the Linlithgow & Bathgate to Edinburgh blockade on Saturday, these are presumably the ones they said they couldn't possibly get hold of last Sunday despite, as some of their Twitter followers pointed out, there being no football last weekend because of the international matches.

 

[Robertj21a]

Most of the cancellations are in SPT-land, largely from Central, so no, almost certainly not. That last Glasgow - Perth has been starting at Stirling the last few nights when I've looked at Journeycheck. I suspect it's more likely it's actually running empty from Glasgow & the guard is boarding at Stirling.

I also notice they've managed buses for the Linlithgow & Bathgate to Edinburgh blockade on Saturday, these are presumably the ones they said they couldn't possibly get hold of last Sunday despite, as some of their Twitter followers pointed out, there being no football last weekend because of the international matches.

Do you think bus drivers might simply not want to work Sundays - like some train drivers?

 

[alangla]

Do you think bus drivers might simply not want to work Sundays - like some train drivers?

I don't think that's really a choice you get in the coach hire industry.

 

[Horizon22]

The TRNSMT festival at Glasgow Green starts today. First real large-scale event in Scotland for 18 months. ScotRail have been tweeting out that extra coaches will be added to services past the venue, check your last train, etc etc. Obviously no services on Sunday, but for tonight? http://www.journeycheck.com/scotrail/
Loads of evening cancellations including last trains binned or, in the case of the last Queen Street to Perth, starting at Stirling, all due to shortage of crew.

Brilliant. Morning services today seem largely ok, it's just the afternoon & evening that seem to be suffering, which seems a bit odd to say the least.

I imagine there are more volunteers for early shifts than there are late shifts - a slight trend I've tended to see in the industry but by no means universal and constant.

 

[scotraildriver]

Like all workplaces Scotrail has a considerable number of staff self isolating and volunteers are needed to work on their day off to cover their shifts. Unfortunately, after the experience of the last TRNSMT 2 years ago no one in their right mind would volunteer for a Friday or Saturday backshift this weekend, having to deal with thousands of drunk, underage, abusive, violent, armed and downright incapable teenagers. It was truly awful, second only to the Oasis gig in Edinburgh many moons ago. Anyone who gives up a weekend at home with their family to deal with that needs their head looked at. (Today's amusement so far seems to centre around throwing used lateral flow tests around. Delightful)

 

[Robertj21a]

I don't think that's really a choice you get in the coach hire industry.

If you haven't got a driver willing to work on a Sunday/rest day then you won't be getting a coach!
Simples.

 

[mcmad]

I also notice they've managed buses for the Linlithgow & Bathgate to Edinburgh blockade on Saturday, these are presumably the ones they said they couldn't possibly get hold of last Sunday despite, as some of their Twitter followers pointed out, there being no football last weekend because of the international matches.

I've heard it mentioned that its been their policy since the 'strikes' started that there is no replacement bus service provide.

 

[Starmill]

If you haven't got a driver willing to work on a Sunday/rest day then you won't be getting a coach!
Simples.

This isn't generally how coach drivers work though, as the post you replied to stated. What's a 'rest day'?

Also this is almost certainly the reason why there's no bus transport for the strike. It is because they want to put people off from travelling.

I've heard it mentioned that its been their policy since the 'strikes' started that there is no replacement bus service provide.

Indeed. Only hospitals received replacement bus services generally.

 

[Robertj21a]

This isn't generally how coach drivers work though, as the post you replied to stated. What's a 'rest day'?

Also this is almost certainly the reason why there's no bus transport for the strike. It is because they want to put people off from travelling.


Indeed. Only hospitals received replacement bus services generally.

Many 'coach' drivers are part time school bus drivers. They work Mon-Fri and many simply won't work Sundays. The excursion/tour coach drivers will, as you suggest, be far more flexible.

 

[alangla]

Can’t see the full text, but this article seems to be suggesting that the prospect of disruption during COP26 is focussing ministerial minds

Ministers intervene to try to stop 'national embarrassment' of COP 26 Scots rail services stoppage

MINISTERS have intervened to try to end a dispute that threatens to bring Scotland's railways to a grinding halt when the world's eyes are on the…

www.heraldscotland.com

MINISTERS have intervened to try to end a dispute that threatens to bring Scotland's railways to a grinding halt when the world's eyes are on the nation during the United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP 26) in Glasgow in November.

 

[Blindtraveler]

In a strange way I hope the interventions fail. Might not do any harm if the world gets a giggle out of the farcical mess that his ScotRail these days

 

[Deltic1961]

Papering over the cracks is never good in the longer term. So many issues with the rail system in Scotland but nobody seems interested in fixing it.

 

[InOban]

Is there any indication as to the progress of negotiations with ASLEF? I assume they're being offered an increase in return for 7-day working.

 

[wobman]

The Sundays on the railways are very disjointed, some tocs have Sundays in the working week but many use the agreement of committed Sunday working as overtime and the remaining shifts covered by rest day working.
It seems the Scottish government agreed a vague agreement for additional payment for the guards different to the drivers. Now it's come back to bite them, as the grey areas go both ways it seems

One way to fix it all is to have Sundays as part of the working week, but there's no willing to resolve that with the present administration it seems.

 

[greyman42]

Papering over the cracks is never good in the longer term. So many issues with the rail system in Scotland but nobody seems interested in fixing it.

The SNP have no interest in fixing it as they only have one agenda.