ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[InOban]

Scotrail and transport scotland are saying there’s no money at the same time as not bothering to collect revenue.

There‘s barely any on board revenue collection and hardly a station has barriers. They are, in effect, running a free shuttle service for anyone who doesn’t want to pay.

When they start enforcing revenue collection people might be a bit more willing to listen to the claims of no money.

I would guess that the 95% of journeys begin or end at one of the many barriered stations. Their installation was a commitment by a previous franchise, can't remember which one.

I would have thought that with goodwill on both sides it would be possible to make changes to traditional working patterns which would allow more efficient use of traincrew hours, releasing funds for a pay increase.

 

[Robertj21a]

I would guess that the 95% of journeys begin or end at one of the many barriered stations. Their installation was a commitment by a previous franchise, can't remember which one.

I would have thought that with goodwill on both sides it would be possible to make changes to traditional working patterns which would allow more efficient use of traincrew hours, releasing funds for a pay increase.

Quite agree. The key word being 'both'.

 

[wobman]

People must presume traincrew just sit around and do nothing all day, just drinking tea whilst dunking biscuits.

Tocs have expensive software and resource departments that utilise the staff working hours quite efficiently, I'm amazed that people have such a poor perception of railway staff.

 

[Taylor]

I would guess that the 95% of journeys begin or end at one of the many barriered stations. Their installation was a commitment by a previous franchise, can't remember which one.

I would have thought that with goodwill on both sides it would be possible to make changes to traditional working patterns which would allow more efficient use of traincrew hours, releasing funds for a pay increase.

Argyle street has had the barriers open all last week and no staff on gateline when I’ve been using it. I don’t know if there was a problem specific to last week that meant they couldn’t use them or if it is usually like that. Scotrail has also had the barriers left open at Waverley in recent months. Scotrail management seem quite happy to let revenue walk out the gate.

 

[Bill57p9]

Argyle street has had the barriers open all last week and no staff on gateline when I’ve been using it. I don’t know if there was a problem specific to last week that meant they couldn’t use them or if it is usually like that. Scotrail has also had the barriers left open at Waverley in recent months. Scotrail management seem quite happy to let revenue walk out the gate.

Under the current emergency agreements, do the TOCs still have any direct financial incentive to protect revenue?

 

[320320]

I would guess that the 95% of journeys begin or end at one of the many barriered stations. Their installation was a commitment by a previous franchise, can't remember which one.

I would have thought that with goodwill on both sides it would be possible to make changes to traditional working patterns which would allow more efficient use of traincrew hours, releasing funds for a pay increase.

I doubt the figure is anywhere near 95%, but the real problem is that many passengers, when asked to buy a ticket will claim to have boarded at or are going to the first station without barriers, knowing that the TE or conductor has no power to remove them from the train.

As for the ”more efficient use of train crew hours”, there’s nobody sitting around spare because there’s not enough staff to cover the jobs as it is, resulting in reliance on RDW.

Quite agree. The key word being 'both'.

If nothing else, this is at least an improvement on your usual efforts in blaming the staff and absolving the company.

Argyle street has had the barriers open all last week and no staff on gateline when I’ve been using it. I don’t know if there was a problem specific to last week that meant they couldn’t use them or if it is usually like that. Scotrail has also had the barriers left open at Waverley in recent months. Scotrail management seem quite happy to let revenue walk out the gate.

Scotrail couldn’t care less about collecting revenue anymore. You can add central low level and Bathgate to stations that are regularly left with barriers open.

 

[43066]

I would have thought that with goodwill on both sides it would be possible to make changes to traditional working patterns which would allow more efficient use of traincrew hours, releasing funds for a pay increase.

As stated above, TOCs ensure that utilisation of traincrew, an expensive resource, is mighty efficient. I’m sure we are all keen to hear your expert opinion on how that can be improved further?!

 

[Dr Hoo]

Am I alone in being confused that some grades - notably 'on train' - seem be deployed with...

expensive software and resource departments that utilise the staff working hours quite efficiently

...but barrier staff seem to be absent from their posts on a widespread basis?

Is it that there have been mass retirements, promotions to other roles, etc. causing huge vacancy gaps, high levels of sickness and isolation, or whatever? Or are the barrier staff literally 'doing nothing'?

(It's a long time since I worked in Scotland. It is sad to hear of the way things seem to be these days.)

 

[wobman]

Am I alone in being confused that some grades - notably 'on train' - seem be deployed with...

...but barrier staff seem to be absent from their posts on a widespread basis?

Is it that there have been mass retirements, promotions to other roles, etc. causing huge vacancy gaps, high levels of sickness and isolation, or whatever? Or are the barrier staff literally 'doing nothing'?

(It's a long time since I worked in Scotland. It is sad to hear of the way things seem to be these days.)

ScotRail must have redeployed the gateline staff to customer service work, it's a question best asked on the ScotRail twitter page.

My comment was about traincrew

 

[Highlandspring]

ScotRail must have redeployed the gateline staff to customer service work, it's a question best asked on the ScotRail twitter page.

I’ve heard from someone in ScotRail that a lot of the gateline staff are part time and they’ve had their hours cut back dramatically to save money.

 

[wobman]

I’ve heard from someone in ScotRail that a lot of the gateline staff are part time and they’ve had their hours cut back dramatically to save money.

Doesn't surprise me making as the ScotRail management and Scottish government are intent on messing up the franchise, gateline staff work barriers which bring in revenue but someone doesn't seem to understand that.

 

[Starmill]

Doesn't surprise me making as the ScotRail management and Scottish government are intent on messing up the franchise, gateline staff work barriers which bring in revenue but someone doesn't seem to understand that.

It's absolutely not necessarily true that there's a positive business case for longer gate hours. It may cost more than it brings in through marginal revenue.

 

[wobman]

It's absolutely not necessarily true that there's a positive business case for longer gate hours. It may cost more than it brings in through marginal revenue.

I know of 1 gateline were the TOC said it would take 2 years to pay for the barriers and staffing costs, then 3 months later they were in profit ! It's very dependent on the station size / footfall. but barriers work well in the LU and I can't understand the negativity towards barriers at stations.

 

[Falcon1200]

That argument starts to look rather hollow when the government has apparently been able to afford to pay people £30k per year for doing absolutely nothing. The money is there alright, it’s just a question of priorities.

To which the contrary argument is that because the Government has spent so much on furlough, there is less money for anything else !

That especially applies to Scotrail who are paid well below the going rate as it is.

Well below the going rate - whatever that actually is - for what ?

 

[Starmill]

To which the contrary argument is that because the Government has spent so much on furlough, there is less money for anything else !



Well below the going rate - whatever that actually is - for what ?

It's very common for businesses to pay slightly less than a well known competitor. Especially where the higher wages are at the smaller company. A larger company has greater capacity to undertake training of new hires. If it is cheaper to accept the slightly higher staff turnover than to raise wages to match your competitors then it is likely to be what happens.

 

[wobman]

It's very common for businesses to pay slightly less than a well known competitor. Especially where the higher wages are at the smaller company. A larger company has greater capacity to undertake training of new hires. If it is cheaper to accept the slightly higher staff turnover than to raise wages to match your competitors then it is likely to be what happens.

The tocs and outside companies with that mentality are the ones all suffering with staffing shortages or as the railway says resource availability.

Look at the HGV industry now, that's been caused by the same management attitudes towards staff pay and conditions.

 

[43066]

To which the contrary argument is that because the Government has spent so much on furlough, there is less money for anything else !

That’s not a counter argument if you understand that furlough has been funded through borrowing. If the government can borrow tens of billions to pay people to sit idle, there’s a good moral argument for borrowing a little extra to pay a modest reward to those who have continued to work throughout the pandemic.

Well below the going rate - whatever that actually is - for what ?

Their drivers are on substantially less (over £20k less in the case of Avanti west coast) than others doing similar work elsewhere.

 

[Starmill]

I know of 1 gateline were the TOC said it would take 2 years to pay for the barriers and staffing costs, then 3 months later they were in profit ! It's very dependent on the station size / footfall. but barriers work well in the LU and I can't understand the negativity towards barriers at stations.

London Underground is generally a high cost, high intensity operation. ScotRail have gates at some notably less busy stations. Although it doesn't particularly make sense not to target resources at the central Glasgow and Edinburgh stations.

 

[InOban]

Of course those on furlough were generally paid 80%, I think.

The fact that a driver on a stopping service is paid less than an Intercity driver seems bizarre to me as the local driver would seem to have a much more stressful job. Unless driving a single route with few stops day after day requires a boredom payment...

But I suppose it's like pilots. I'm sure that a Loganair pilot on inter-island services in Orkney (who actually flies the plane) is paid less than than a longhaul pilot whose plane essentially flies itself 99% of the time.

 

[Starmill]

The tocs and outside companies with that mentality are the ones all suffering with staffing shortages or as the railway says resource availability.

Look at the HGV industry now, that's been caused by the same management attitudes towards staff pay and conditions.

Freight haulage by road is in greater demand than ever. Commuter and business passenger rail travel is in vastly lower demand than it has been for decades.

 

[Deltic1961]

No issues with the barriers at Aberdeen. Always plenty of staff and they are never open from what I've seen. I would also say 80% of my journeys have someone to check the ticket on board too.

I just use the online ticket system through the app and it works really well.

No-one checked my ticket on Friday because it was a 2 car class 158 from Inverness and it was rammed. Didn't help they cancelled the local services both before and after it though. Hope the "good old days" of constant cancellations at Dyce aren't coming back.

 

[Bald Rick]

Their drivers are on substantially less (over £20k less in the case of Avanti west coast) than others doing similar work elsewhere.

How does it compare to Northern and TPE drivers?

And how do the Ts and Cs compare with Avanti / LNER?

 

[Starmill]

Id

How does it compare to Northern and TPE drivers?

And how do the Ts and Cs compare with Avanti / LNER?

Thank also be interested in how pay and contractual conditions compare with those at Edinburgh Trams and Glasgow Subway, Tyne & Wear Metro and Merseyrail.

 

[Horizon22]

As stated above, TOCs ensure that utilisation of traincrew, an expensive resource, is mighty efficient. I’m sure we are all keen to hear your expert opinion on how that can be improved further?!

I would argue resource is not as highly efficient as it has previously been. Many of the diagrams I’ve seen only the last year have been anything but, partly because of all the STP timetables that keep getting amended and changes in stock diagrams. It’s done as best it can be on the day, but there’s definitely odd gaps, overlaps and general inefficiencies than if it had been looked at with great detail and more time. Maybe that’s just one TOC, but I imagine others including Scotrail have had issues.

It's absolutely not necessarily true that there's a positive business case for longer gate hours. It may cost more than it brings in through marginal revenue.

It’s hard to fully calculate. The presence of gatelines being staffed changes the culture of passengers and a greater expectation of revenue protection. There will be more passengers who will be less likely to “chance it” and may indirectly lead to increased fares.

 

[43066]

How does it compare to Northern and TPE drivers?

And how do the Ts and Cs compare with Avanti / LNER?

Northern and TPE are both on a higher basic than Scotrail. Ts and Cs vary between TOCs but Scotrail’s aren’t standout AFAIK; aren’t they partly DOO? They have been well known as the lowest paying U.K. TOC for years, so I can well imagine that has fostered a feeling of resentment amongst staff, which is perhaps coming home to roost.

I suppose you could argue “if you think you’re underpaid, leave” and that’s true to an extent. But not possible for those who live along way from other TOC depots.

Id

Thank also be interested in how pay and contractual conditions compare with those at Edinburgh Trams and Glasgow Subway, Tyne & Wear Metro and Merseyrail.

All of which are unrelated jobs: trams are driven on sight; Tyne and Wear metro and Glasgow Subway aren’t qualified NR drivers (and arguably also very underpaid when you compare them with LU who are on around £60k); Merseyrail is another poorly paying TOC but even they pay a higher basic than Scotrail, is my understanding.

I would argue resource is not as highly efficient as it has previously been. Many of the diagrams I’ve seen only the last year have been anything but, partly because of all the STP timetables that keep getting amended and changes in stock diagrams. It’s done as best it can be on the day, but there’s definitely odd gaps, overlaps and general inefficiencies than if it had been looked at with great detail and more time. Maybe that’s just one TOC, but I imagine others including Scotrail have had issues.

I’m sure that’s location dependent (and presumably the recent class 800 issues haven’t helped where you are). Of course STP diagraming has nothing to do with Ts and Cs being sold for pay rises, which I assume is what the previous poster was alluding to in referring to “traditional working practices”. If a larger movement off spare is agreed, for example, it’s still down to the TOC to produce the rosters to utilise that effectively.

 

[GLC]

That’s not a counter argument if you understand that furlough has been funded through borrowing. If the government can borrow tens of billions to pay people to sit idle, there’s a good moral argument for borrowing a little extra to pay a modest reward to those who have continued to work throughout the pandemic.

I think this is a matter of perspective though. Those who were placed on furlough of course were only paid up to 80% of their monthly wages. The furlough scheme was only intended for those who could not work as a result of Government guidance. The majority of the country were still working on full pay (albeit in vastly different circumstances). By and large, there was no reward for this for anyone, as it was business as usual(ish)

 

[wobman]

Freight haulage by road is in greater demand than ever. Commuter and business passenger rail travel is in vastly lower demand than it has been for decades.

Have you seen the recruitment drives by most tocs, traincrew are in demand and just look in the Twitter pages to see how busy many non commutter services are now.
Some tocs are reporting up to 80% of pre covid numbers.
It's not all doom and gloom on the railways as many people portray, public transport will increase as more cities start congestion charging road users. The latest being Manchester and many more will follow suit.

 

[Starmill]

I think this is a matter of perspective though. Those who were placed on furlough of course were only paid up to 80% of their monthly wages. The furlough scheme was only intended for those who could not work as a result of Government guidance. The majority of the country were still working on full pay (albeit in vastly different circumstances). By and large, there was no reward for this for anyone, as it was business as usual(ish)

I think that there absolutely is a very strong ethical case for spending more to give front-line publicly-funded workers a pay rise of 3-4%, which would include all customer facing railway and tramway/metro staff, as well as all school and hospital staff (including temporary and contract workers), most council workers, Jobcentre staff, contracted out refuse collectors and street cleaners and so on and so forth. Of course the cost of that on an ongoing basis would dwarf that of the Job Retention scheme. The issue is that's not really what we're able to do as a country while hard right fiscal hawks are in Number 11. And while personally I'm totally relaxed about borrowing arranging a cabinet who are is unlikely.

 

[Falcon1200]

Their drivers are on substantially less (over £20k less in the case of Avanti west coast) than others doing similar work elsewhere.

That is certainly a huge differential, and makes some resentment understandable.... but how could the issue be resolved ? Raise the pay of all Drivers (and other rail staff) to the highest rate paid anywhere in the UK, which would make the railway even more expensive to run than it is already, or adjust pay to a level somewhere in the middle, which I doubt would be acceptable to the Unions or those staff adversely affected ? Not a simple thing to sort out !

 

[Speed43125]

That is certainly a huge differential, and makes some resentment understandable.... but how could the issue be resolved ? Raise the pay of all Drivers (and other rail staff) to the highest rate paid anywhere in the UK, which would make the railway even more expensive to run than it is already, or adjust pay to a level somewhere in the middle, which I doubt would be acceptable to the Unions or those staff adversely affected ? Not a simple thing to sort out !

Driver salaries have gone up disproportionally following privatisation as TOCs poach drivers off each other. Someone like AWC positioned with depots in locations nearer other TOCs would seem much more likely to poach off others and do so via higher salaries. Whereas Scotrail are in effect a self contained network with little interworking with other daytime TOCs north of the central belt.
To me it would seem logical that they end up having to raise salaries less, if you're an Inverness driver your options are pretty limited in terms of other driving jobs without moving, so Scotrail end up needing less 'carrot' to keep them on as a driver.