LoogaBarooga
Member
- Joined
- 11 Jul 2019
- Messages
- 233
ScotRail have produced a list of FAQs relating to the pay offer. It's basically asking people to work through the strike by emailing a confidential email address. Bloody hell.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)
- Thread starter AY1975
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Are we at the stage now where we can consider dismissing all those striking/non-cooperating, the whole lot, and training new staff up from scratch? I understand there are a lot of current applicants. How many months without service before they would become productive?
GlitterUnicorn
Member
As an effectively nationalised operator at this point, they wouldn't be living up to their duties to the public if they didn't try to maintain some level of service?
Unions only work for so long as all the employees consent to allowing the union to represent them.
Quite agree. If the union won't send details of the offer to their members, then someone has to.
Considering with previous ballots there's been a fair chunk of members not voting this could be very interesting. As you say too with the service they need to provide this is the right call.
Horrendous communication from RMT to members seems to also be a factor too.
Fire and re hire, yes a wonderful Tory idea that!
Has this forum reached an all time low?
No way, that's a non starter.
We seem to be getting off topic here but the railway scheme is a final salary scheme which will be the same regardless if you are on strike or not.
Also most staff employed ex BR were moved over to a career average scheme so final year salary is not as important as it used to be.
The days of getting a well paid managerial role in you last couple of years and so boosting your pension are over.
No, we definitely don't rehire the strikers. New personnel.
It follows; if the existing staff are so hacked off with the conditions of the job, they are unlikely, whatever the final outcome, to go forward with any sense of enthusiasm. Customer service will fall off a cliff edge. Safety will slip. Best to start again. Nothing to do with any political party.
In fairness, this was essentially what southern did to force the OBS contract (in the end). I'm really quite surprised it hasn't happened already, given how long this has been going on. Perhaps it would make the SNP look a little too far to the right?
Lemmy99uk
Member
- Joined
- 5 May 2015
- Messages
- 459
I think you will find that this a public forum, and people from all political persuasions are allowed to comment.
I'm pretty sure all this has been done before. Providing free food and drink on shift and allowing everyone to work in non-uniform are also common.
Southern made almost all of their conductors redundant and gave them new roles through the statutory consultation that followed. If you dismiss your staff you dismiss them, though, not offer them another job. The relationship has broken down by that point. If you start a redundancy consultation you might have to pay redundancy pay though, which you don't if you dismiss someone.
Last edited:
You don't think those things would happen if you removed long-term staff and replaced them with people who have just been trained rather than built up years of on-the-job experience?
Fire strikers for wanting to retain or improve their conditions? Insanity. Thank god ScotRail won't do that.
Ah, apologies, I thought the wording trivial but yes, I see its quite the difference. Not necessarily a cheap solution then - although could easily be created by changing the role profile enough. Perhaps recoup costs by offering lower pay in a new contract.
In any case, I just feel for the poor staff involved. No doubt many will have lost far more than they would stand to gain over the next year or so, even if the RMT got their way. It must be jolly hard for the guys who would just prefer this were over with and could get back to it.
Absolutely nothing stopping anyone “getting back to it”
Scotrail are now saying if non union staff break the strike and work through COP26 they will receive the £300 payment AND the pay rise.
Paying 2 people different salary’s for doing exactly the same job doesn’t seem right. Not sure of the legality either.
Paying 2 people different salary’s for doing exactly the same job doesn’t seem right. Not sure of the legality either.
You know that's not true. Right or wrong anyone crossing picket lines in traincrew grades is likely to have a miserable time of it for a long time to come.
I know a driver who crossed a picket line in 1982 who people still don't talk to - I am not, for the record, one of them.
Regardless of what anyone says, choosing to work will have consequences, some people don't care about them but I would say they are the minority.
This is a common myth. The only legal restriction on paying people different amounts for equivalent work is that it must not directly or indirectly discriminate against certain protected characteristics.
the sniper
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Sep 2007
- Messages
- 3,499
I wonder how often they'll get put on the ticket barrier...?
It'll be interesting to see how many union members that turns. It is legal as others have said. Given that money has been lost by this going on so long I'd imagine some might be tempted to work
It's certainly not pleasant but it's also certainly not unusual!
Indeed. It sounds like a miserable choice between the consequences in the form of 8 or more days lost pay, or pariah status / bullying risk etc
If anyone is scummy enough to bully someone for making their own decision now after how long this has gone on I'd imagine that would potentially lead to sackings if management catch on. I wonder how attractive a job at Scotrail is to the general public is at the current time. I know in the past I've applied for different roles in both Scotrail and Network Rail, never lead to anything but I'd imagine if a role was infront of me within Scotrail these days I'd be far more hesitant to touch it.
The simple fear of being bullied as a so-called "scab" will likely be sufficient for most not to consider it, however, even if they wanted to.
Sadly I agree with you. We are still stuck in the dark ages with things like that.
Those people are the sort who are not worth any decent person speaking to.
Only in certain industries; the rail industry is one of the few left stuck in the dark ages.
Last edited:
Agreed that any form of bullying is wrong. But people disagreeing strongly enough with the industrial action to work through it should certainly consider leaving the union.
Whatever the whys and wherefores of this dispute, it wouldn’t really be cricket to continue to work normally while remaining in the union, when colleagues are taking the hit to try and improve Ts and Cs. Human nature being what it is people will inevitably (and understandably) take umbrage at this.
I'm convinced the rail industry is very far behind on a lot of things which is ironic given that the social media staff for Scotrail are very good when it comes to sharing things related to mental health. If only the rest of the industry was in 2021 with us.
GlitterUnicorn
Member
Guards must have lost maybe 10-15% (at least) of their total pay this year due to industrial action. The prospect of losing another 3-4% when the RMT is on a losing streak and missing out on a 4.7% pay rise probably isn't a nice thought.
Guards will understandably be anxious, but the RMT is stuck between a rock and a hard place here. Barring a miracle, at this point there's no way any deal they can obtain will leave their members better off than if it hadn't happened.
I mean who's bloody stupid idea was it to start a Sundays only strike during lockdown, in the middle of a pandemic? Where a lack of Sunday services was barely even an inconvenience???
I think the RMT has worked itself into a bit of a hole.
Guards will understandably be anxious, but the RMT is stuck between a rock and a hard place here. Barring a miracle, at this point there's no way any deal they can obtain will leave their members better off than if it hadn't happened.
I mean who's bloody stupid idea was it to start a Sundays only strike during lockdown, in the middle of a pandemic? Where a lack of Sunday services was barely even an inconvenience???
I think the RMT has worked itself into a bit of a hole.
- Status