I 100% get your sentiment - I would be really frustrated if e-tickets were removed on the flow I commute on (I understand it's a different ticket type), so it's annoying to see the industry taking steps like this - even if it doesn't yet affect my journey.
I don’t think a chargeback through your bank is appropriate or would succeed.
I can't see why that would be the case - if you can buy the smartcard ticket online the phone is just one way of loading it.
I think it's a bad idea, but I do think it has a reasonable chance of success as "product not delivered". I've seen far more ridiculous chargebacks succeed
What’s wrong with using the Tap and Pay app, which they said would continue to work? I used it yesterday to travel the distance of one station and it works just fine. (To avoid any confusion, tap refers to tapping start journey on the app screen, not tapping in on a reader/gateline)
Would anyone like to explain to me how this is somehow less susceptible to fraud?
I’m not familiar with all the “suspect” stations, but if they all have gate lines there would be an audit trail that the tap and pay Aztec barcode had been used to open the gate line.
It’s not entered by the user - the app states you must activate your journey at or prior to boarding. If you are not at a station it will say so and prevent it. Use of mTickets can be activated at any point on the journey making the ability to hold off activating worth a gamble.
It's sent from, and gathered by the user's phone. It's user input. Trust me, there is no "silver bullet" that you can use to determine if that location is accurate.
Most people round my way disagree; th vast majority of passengers on trains to/from/via York are on e tickets.
Agreed.
The idea that GPS data could be used to enforce anything is fundamentally flawed.
GPS data comes from wherever my GPS emulator is set to.
Tap and Pay leaves an audit trail, not perfect in all circumstances, but it does. Yesterday I boarded at a station without a gate line. However there was a revenue block and my barcode was scanned. I exited at a gateline station and again the barcode was scanned. In the reverse direction the revenue block was still present and again my ticket was scanned. GPS data frequently inconsistent with scans would soon show up.
Exactly this, I'm glad somebody gets it!
Agree 100%. But I'm sure GBR making a decision here and telling ScotRail to sort themselves out would go down like a lead balloon.
All of this would protect in exactly the same way with etickets. Tap and Play doesn't make it better.
It's child's play to emulate GPS data. As has already been pointed out in at least three different posts immediately above yours.
Tap and Pay generates an Aztec barcode “ticket” which looks very similar to an e-ticket. It gets scanned during the journey, just as an e-ticket would be.
According to the info, and the customer service rep I chatted with, Tap and Pay will give you the best walk up fare. For a Club 50 railcard that means a 10% discount and not the 20% discount that mTickets provides. Also, the Slateford-Haymarket trains are hourly, so if I've missed one coming home I often walk or take the bus. For this I'd be charged a full price single, which is more than a Club 50 return. I would presume when Tap and Pay says it will give you the cheapest fare it probably doesn't charge you for an off-peak return when that is cheaper than a single (although I'm happy to be proved wrong).
It's my device.
Right, which is equivalent to just .. selling E-Tickets on the flow in the first place. So if you're using that as a justification and ignoring the GPS element, you could just offer E-Tickets instead.
If you’re heading down the route of fraudulent misrepresentation, why not save money and use a printer to make a counterfeit ticket? Much cheaper and less expensive tech!
Because buying a printer and producing authentic-looking tickets would take months of work and cost a lot more?
Slateford doesn't have any gatelines or TVMs. Also, its footbridge allows access from a lane behind to the main road at the front - it's effectively a right of way and is probably used more than the trains. Because of the lack of footpath on nearby roads and the station layout I think it's unlikely that there would ever be any gates here. If they did require tickets to access both the platforms and the bridge the locals would probably revolt!
A lot of the stations appear to have been chosen specifically because they lack gatelines...
Paper tickets are dying out and good riddance, both for environmental and convenience reasons. Tap and go is the future, it will just take a while to be implemented country-wide. M-tickets etc are just a stepping stone.
Tap and go will never replace e-tickets; it can only supplement them for shorter distance journeys.
Indeed it is. But from the T&C’s
Many of the stations on the Edinburgh to Glasgow Central line don't. Slateford is probably also an issue because it's the last one before Haymarket. Some of the other routes (Bridge of Allan - Stirling) are similarly a small station before a bigger one. That said, I don't think the previous station to Slateford (Kingsknowe) has a gateline either, and that's only 30p more. So I imagine the fraudulent purchases will just start from there instead! I suspect that it won't be long before many more stations are removed from mTickets.
If I've set the GPS to make it like I'd never left the house, then the origin station would be displayed on the list. My ticket would match my journey.
Your house would need to be quite close to the station, as for a ‘list’ to choose from, I’ve never had that using the app. I’m told no station is nearby and to move closer to one. When I arrive I’m asked to confirm the station I’m starting the journey from and only when I do this is the code generated.
