ScotRail May 2018 Timetable change

[Stopper]

The new timetable looks a total shambles. Nobody wants or needs those slow Cumbernauld services extending through to Edinburgh, they won’t take pressure of Croy as has been suggested because Croy has far quicker (and more frequent to Glasgow) journey times to both E&G.

The Dunblane services should have just remained all-stops, or they should try and squeeze in an extra Stirling service or two, and allow for some more reasonable skip-stopping.

 

[Altnabreac]

The new timetable looks a total shambles. Nobody wants or needs those slow Cumbernauld services extending through to Edinburgh, they won’t take pressure of Croy as has been suggested because Croy has far quicker (and more frequent to Glasgow) journey times to both E&G.

The Dunblane services should have just remained all-stops, or they should try and squeeze in an extra Stirling service or two, and allow for some more reasonable skip-stopping.

I'm afraid I disagree entirely. Plenty of people will travel through to Edinburgh from places like Stepps, Gartcosh and Cumbernauld. We had the same arguments when Airdrie - Bathgate opened and people said there would be no demand for slower but direct services.

The full benefits won't be felt until we get the Dalmeny Chord built but hopefully that's going to get in the new project pipeline ASAP.

The only people who lose out are Linlithgow - Stirling travellers and I don't think that's a huge market.

 

[Stopper]

I'm afraid I disagree entirely. Plenty of people will travel through to Edinburgh from places like Stepps, Gartcosh and Cumbernauld. We had the same arguments when Airdrie - Bathgate opened and people said there would be no demand for slower but direct services.

The full benefits won't be felt until we get the Dalmeny Chord built but hopefully that's going to get in the new project pipeline ASAP.

The only people who lose out are Linlithgow - Stirling travellers and I don't think that's a huge market.

Plenty of customers from Cumbernauld based on what? It’s a far slower service than Croy provides and I don’t see the demand being there towards Edinburgh, let alone from smaller places such as Stepps and Gartcosh. The Grahamston-Queen Street and the Cumbernauld-Dumbarton services are probably the 2 least used services around the Glasgow area.

As a Linlithgow passenger (a station with over a million passengers a year), I’m very disappointed with the reduction of the westbound service. When EGIP was first spoken about we were promised so many things, and now Linlithgow and Polmont have ended up with a downgrade in service.

Add that to the endless delays in electrification and rolling stock arriving, it’s been an utter disaster.

 

[hexagon789]

now Linlithgow and Polmont have ended up with a downgrade in service.

How? There will be no fewer services than at present.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

How? There will be no fewer services than at present.

Because we will lose direct trains to Stirling and Dunblane. Not everybody wants to go to Edinburgh or Glasgow or even Cumbernauld.

 

[hexagon789]

Because we will lose direct trains to Stirling and Dunblane. Not everybody wants to go to Edinburgh or Glasgow or even Cumbernauld.

You can still get to those places quite easily though, changing at Falkirk Grahamston is not the end of the world.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Because we will lose direct trains to Stirling and Dunblane. Not everybody wants to go to Edinburgh or Glasgow or even Cumbernauld.

On the other hand, what about the people who will benefit? Stirling trains will be faster and have more capacity for people who don't have as many alternative options. Timetabling is hard and there's no way to satisfy every competing demand at once. All you can do is try to maximise the overall benefit to everyone.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

You can still get to those places quite easily though, changing at Falkirk Grahamston is not the end of the world.

Have you ever been to Falkirk Grahamston?

 

[hexagon789]

Have you ever been to Falkirk Grahamston?

On numerous occasions, including waiting for upto 20 minutes on occasion changing from a Dunblane-Edinburgh service to a Falkirk Grahamston-Glasgow Queen Street service. Why?

 

[Glenmutchkin]

On the other hand, what about the people who will benefit? Stirling trains will be faster and have more capacity for people who don't have as many alternative options. Timetabling is hard and there's no way to satisfy every competing demand at once. All you can do is try to maximise the overall benefit to everyone.

Easily sorted by longer and faster electric trains that continue to call at Linlithgow and Polmont. The way things are going the wires to Dunblane will be live before Hitachi sort the trains out.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

On numerous occasions, including waiting for upto 20 minutes on occasion changing from a Dunblane-Edinburgh service to a Falkirk Grahamston-Glasgow Queen Street service. Why?

You must be very easily pleased

 

[hexagon789]

On the other hand, what about the people who will benefit? Stirling trains will be faster and have more capacity for people who don't have as many alternative options.

That's how I see it, improvements for more people. Extra E-G services, faster services with more capacity on other routes and are the end of it frequencies are not being decreased at the likes of Polmont and Linlithgow, simply fewer direct services but still the ability to make those journeys with one change using the same platform as well.

 

[hexagon789]

You must be very easily pleased

Not really, I've been to far nicer stations in far less pleasant towns.

 

[Stopper]

On the other hand, what about the people who will benefit? Stirling trains will be faster and have more capacity for people who don't have as many alternative options. Timetabling is hard and there's no way to satisfy every competing demand at once. All you can do is try to maximise the overall benefit to everyone.

So Linlithgow and Polmont (annual passenger numbers of around 1.1million and 700,000) should have to effectively lose half of their Westbound service to benefit a lot of lesser used stations (other than Stirling) ?

The current E-G via Cumbernauld will arrive at Linlithgow and Polmont well before the Glasgow shuttle, and arrive well after. What sort of benefit is that? We’re talking two of the busiest stations on the line serving big areas, this new timetable simply isn’t good enough. There are a lot of people that want to travel to Stirling in the morning.

 

[hexagon789]

So Linlithgow and Polmont (annual passenger numbers of around 1.1million and 700,000) should have to effectively lose half of their Westbound service to benefit a lot of lesser used stations (other than Stirling) ?

The current E-G via Cumbernauld will arrive at Linlithgow and Polmont well before the Glasgow shuttle, and arrive well after. What sort of benefit is that? We’re talking two of the busiest stations on the line serving big areas, this new timetable simply isn’t good enough. There are a lot of people that want to travel to Stirling in the morning.

But you can still travel to Stirling and Dunblane and you can still do it every half-hour. You make it sound as though you can't full stop. They will still have 6 trains per hour all that is happening is that you lose direct services to Stirling and Dunblane off-peak, nothing as been said as to whether peak services will not stop either and even if they don't as I said before, changing at Falkirk Grahamston on the same platform is not the worst thing that could happen.

I can't even get to Edinburgh directly from my station and to Stirling requires 2 changes.

 

[Stopper]

But you can still travel to Stirling and Dunblane and you can still do it every half-hour. You make it sound as though you can't full stop. They will still have 6 trains per hour all that is happening is that you lose direct services to Stirling and Dunblane off-peak, nothing as been said as to whether peak services will not stop either and even if they don't as I said before, changing at Falkirk Grahamston on the same platform is not the worst thing that could happen.

I can't even get to Edinburgh directly from my station and to Stirling requires 2 changes.

6 trains per hour, what??

Linlithgow will have 4tph to Edinburgh as it currently does. It will have 2tph to Glasgow and 2tph of the irrelevant service via Cumbernauld.

A station of over a million passengers a year should not have it’s passengers changing at Falkirk Grahamston for it’s second biggest destination of passengers (Stirling). It’s an absolute joke of a decision which has rightly been ridiculed by many.

 

[InOban]

But of that million plus, how many are going to Larbert or Stirling? There's no reduction in service towards either Glasgow or Edinburgh.

 

[Stopper]

But of that million plus, how many are going to Larbert or Stirling? There's no reduction in service towards either Glasgow or Edinburgh.

More people travel to Stirling than to Glasgow, from Linlithgow. I know this for a fact.

 

[Altnabreac]

Plenty of customers from Cumbernauld based on what? It’s a far slower service than Croy provides and I don’t see the demand being there towards Edinburgh, let alone from smaller places such as Stepps and Gartcosh. The Grahamston-Queen Street and the Cumbernauld-Dumbarton services are probably the 2 least used services around the Glasgow area.

As a Linlithgow passenger (a station with over a million passengers a year), I’m very disappointed with the reduction of the westbound service. When EGIP was first spoken about we were promised so many things, and now Linlithgow and Polmont have ended up with a downgrade in service.

Add that to the endless delays in electrification and rolling stock arriving, it’s been an utter disaster.

But Linlithgow’s Glasgow, Falkirk and Edinburgh services remain the same, with more capacity on the Cumbernauld service. It is only a worse service for Linlithgow - Stirling passengers which is really a very small market.

Cumbernauld has a population of more than 50,000, is the tenth biggest town or city in Scotland and has a bigger population than Perth or Stirling.

Croy is very useful for Cumbernauld commuters with cars but given the success of Airdrie line stations to Edinburgh I’m sure other North Lanarkshire stations will generate commuters as well, including many for whom Croy is not convenient.

It’s a good idea as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Stopper]

As mentioned before, Croy will have far better journey times so I don't see much of a shift there, it's a bad idea but it's off topic so I have another point.

I'm wondering whether the E-Cumbernauld-G services will have the 4-car or the 3-car units. A 3-car 385 is only around 10 seats extra than a single 170, and less than a double 158. I'm wondering if Linlithgow will actually get this supposed 'increased capacity' as Linlithgow-Edinburgh passengers could probably fill a 158 on their own at some times.

 

[hexagon789]

As mentioned before, Croy will have far better journey times so I don't see much of a shift there, it's a bad idea but it's off topic so I have another point.

I'm wondering whether the E-Cumbernauld-G services will have the 4-car or the 3-car units. A 3-car 385 is only around 10 seats extra than a single 170, and less than a double 158. I'm wondering if Linlithgow will actually get this supposed 'increased capacity' as Linlithgow-Edinburgh passengers could probably fill a 158 on their own at some times.

I believe the 4-car units with First are for the main Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High service only, and therefore I take it that the 3-car sets will operate the via Cumbernauld service in general. As always could be completely wrong about this but that's what seems to be implied.

 

[Stopper]

So a possible downgrade in capacity on some services as well as a downgrade in westbound service. EGIP has been a disappointment for Linlithgow and Polmont while benefitting a lot of lesser used stations.

 

[InOban]

In what way will the westbound service be downgraded? At present you have 2tph, either 3 or 6 coaches. When it's all sorted, you still have 2tph, with either 4 or 8 coaches.

 

[Stopper]

In what way will the westbound service be downgraded? At present you have 2tph, either 3 or 6 coaches. When it's all sorted, you still have 2tph, with either 4 or 8 coaches.

What’s an upgrade about swapping the Dunblane services for the Cumbernauld ones?

 

[Starmill]

4 services per hour to Edinburgh from Camelon seems like an awful lot to me.

I think it's a shame about Polmont and Linlighgow losing direct trains to Stirling. I thought they would make half of services between Edinburgh and Stirling fast, perhaps with just one intermediate call at Falkirk Grahamston between Edinburgh Park and Stirling, while keeping the other calling at all stations. However, they have made all trains fast but only half of the way. It's unusual but it's a reasonable compromise.

 

[InOban]

I didn't say that the westbound service, ie Glasgow, was being significantly upgraded, although it will be slightly faster and have a little more capacity. It just isn't being downgraded as you seemed to believe. The service towards Dunblane I consider a northbound service.

I don't think anyone seriously expects significant numbers to travel from Cumbernauld through to Edinburgh. It's just operationally convenient to join a Cumbernauld service which would otherwise terminate at Falkirk Grahamston, with a stopping service to Edinburgh (which at some time in the future will presumably gain a Winchburgh stop), and which will allow the acceleration of services between Edinburgh and Dunblane.

Although, of course, the trains which call at Croy don't call at Polmont or Linlithgow, so perhaps there is some market. Time will tell.

 

[Starmill]

Cumbernauld has a population of more than 50,000, is the tenth biggest town or city in Scotland and has a bigger population than Perth or Stirling.

Of course, the trains would almost certainly be busier if there were stations at Abronhill and Bonnybridge. Urban areas these (probably relatively lightly loaded by comparison with the E&G) trains to both of Scotland's largest cities will pass right through...

 

[Altnabreac]

Of course, the trains would almost certainly be busier if there were stations at Abronhill and Bonnybridge. Urban areas these (probably relatively lightly loaded by comparison with the E&G) trains to both of Scotland's largest cities will pass right through...

Agreed. The business case for both stations will be a lot better with a 2tph service to Edinburgh and Glasgow than with a 1tph service to Glasgow only.

Will be interesting to see if the new service stimulates interest in the station reopenings.

 

[Altnabreac]

So a possible downgrade in capacity on some services as well as a downgrade in westbound service. EGIP has been a disappointment for Linlithgow and Polmont while benefitting a lot of lesser used stations.

Personally I think the timetable change Linlithgow really needs is 4tph to Glasgow via Falkirk High but that probably can't happen until a new direct High Speed service starts on E-G.

 

[Stopper]

I thought I might as well rename the thread about the whole ScotRail timetable since this thread was created.