Scotrail New and Refurbished Stock update

[Clansman]

What's wrong with you, it doesn't look like anything might fall out of a door at the next station? [emoji38]

Just as well it wasn't a 170!

The most recent bizarre experience I had (granted on a 170) was to open the doors from the outside to find a full size golf bag supported by its metal stand across the full width of the entrance. No problem, I picked it up, turned it round, stepped round it, and then returned it to its original position. I could of course have made a point of deliberately falling over it, suffering all sorts of sprains and bruising, and attempted a claim against Scotrail.

Had many a similar experience.

Once had a pile of cases and rucksacks fall on my head. As typical on a 170 on the Highland Mainline, at least one pair of seats per coach is always used as a make shift luggage rack. Was sat right behind it after not spying any other seats, and was forced to endure the consequences of my decision when we were around Drumochter way, and got a kick of ge-force at ones of the tight curves - as well as a tsunami of what seemed like brick padded leather

 

[47271]

Ah yes, those nippy reverse curves at Rohallion to the south of Dunkeld are always good for that sort of thing. Full marks if you can spot a wheeled suitcase making its way from one side of the vestibule to the other, and back again, within 30 seconds or so. Bonus points if someone opens the door at Dunkeld a couple of minutes later and it falls out on them. It's a long way down.

Actually, I've made up the last bit, but twice I've seen a case doing the full width and back!

 

[D9009Spotter]

Anyone else thought that the pretty much redundant class 707s could be used to replace the 314s and 318s in scotland? More seats and newer trains that have been tested on 25kV

 

[Clansman]

Anyone else thought that the pretty much redundant class 707s could be used to replace the 314s and 318s in scotland? More seats and newer trains that have been tested on 25kV

I don't think the 707s would be the right fit exactly how it is (no toilets and only being 5 coaches for example), but I really do agree with you in a way, and think the Desiro City model is one in which would massively benefit the railway in and around Glasgow, to replace the 318/320/334s.

6-car standard only versions of the 700s, but with the same seating and tables as the 380s. Would be an absolute game changer.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Anyone else thought that the pretty much redundant class 707s could be used to replace the 314s and 318s in scotland? More seats and newer trains that have been tested on 25kV

The 314s are going to be replaced by the new Hitachi Class 385 sets. Abellio have an option for another 10 385s and there seems to be recurring talk of picking up a few more 321s that have been made redundant down south.

 

[Clansman]

The 314s are going to be replaced by the new Hitachi Class 385 sets. Abellio have an option for another 10 385s and there seems to be recurring talk of picking up a few more 321s that have been made redundant down south.

Aye, but wouldn't you think that the 385s are effectively a stop gap so ScotRail can bin the 314s - no chance a train of their spec would be intended for, what is basically, a metro route on a permanent basis (just my opinion).

Cathcart Circle commuters will think they're in dreamland come 2019, they won't know what hit them!

 

[ScottDarg]

Anyone else thought that the pretty much redundant class 707s could be used to replace the 314s and 318s in scotland? More seats and newer trains that have been tested on 25kV

I reckon an EMU with a central(ish) driving seat position, or without a gangway, should replace the 314s/18s/20s because of the nature of the lines. The Desiro City seems to fit that description.

Why have a partially obscured driving view when the platforms alternate between side and island platforms?

 

[clc]

Cathcart Circle commuters will think they're in dreamland come 2019, they won't know what hit them!

And perhaps the fancy new trains will tempt more East Renfrewshire commuters out of their expensive German cars.

 

[Altnabreac]

And perhaps the fancy new trains will tempt more East Renfrewshire commuters out of their expensive German cars.

Oi. Mine's Japanese.

 

[158722]

156513 has emerged from refurb work - presumably it has followed 156510 in having new seating fitted too?

Also, Transport Scotland have repeated that the plan is for 158s to start on the West Highland from December this year, as enough refurbished units will be available by then. Presumably this assumes that enough of the 158726-736/738-741 batch will have been done (and fitted with RETB?) to allow the class to start on the WHL. AFAIK, 158725, the last of the IS batch to be done is/was in works just now, whilst 158731, the first of the current HA batch, is now back in traffic. Not seen any reports, but is 158731 now similar or the same as the 701-725 batch?

Given the plans for HA to become an HST depot, presumably all the 158s will be moved to Inverness and cycled round on diagrams to the Central belt and WHL, as the IS ones do at present.

 

[Clansman]

Given the plans for HA to become an HST depot, presumably all the 158s will be moved to Inverness and cycled round on diagrams to the Central belt and WHL, as the IS ones do at present.

Haymarket will still service 158s and 170s once the HSTs are introduced.

 

[158722]

Haymarket will still service 158s and 170s once the HSTs are introduced.

Daily servicing only or actually based there for heavier maintenance?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Apparently the Haymarket unit done so far retains its horrid Richmond seating, quite angry about this meself.

 

[Clansman]

Daily servicing only or actually based there for heavier maintenance?

Based. The number of 170s, 158s and 156s going off-lease and the fact that Haymarket won't be electrified to take in 385s, allows the space for DMUs and HSTs to be based there.

 

[route101]

What will be used on East Kilbride branch once electrified (if it will)?
Class 345s for Cathcart circle ?
Will the 385s be used on current inverclyde 314 diagrams?

 

[ScottDarg]

What will be used on East Kilbride branch once electrified (if it will)?
Class 345s for Cathcart circle ?
Will the 385s be used on current inverclyde 314 diagrams?

This article from February last year gives an idea of where the 385s will end up:- http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/2016/02/11/class-385-route-introduction-plans-revealed

It mentions 385s for the Cathcart Circle and its associated branches. It also mentions 385s for North Berwick, not sure if that means the 380s currently on that line will eventually move over to replace the 314s on the Inverclyde Lines.

I've seen a few mentions of rumours regarding ScotRail taking on some additional 321s as they get withdrawn down south in the coming years, if true I can see those going to East Kilbride, either as a 4 car 321 or converted to a 320 like the London Midland 7.

 

[Altnabreac]

What will be used on East Kilbride branch once electrified (if it will)?
Class 345s for Cathcart circle ?
Will the 385s be used on current inverclyde 314 diagrams?

East Kilbride will probably use the follow on 385 order if Abellio Franchise is extended.

385s will also be used on Cathcart Circle

380s displaced from North Berwick and Carstairs runs will probably operate the 314 Inverclyde diagrams.

Nothing set in stone though.

 

[Clansman]

East Kilbride will probably use the follow on 385 order if Abellio Franchise is extended.

385s will also be used on Cathcart Circle

380s displaced from North Berwick and Carstairs runs will probably operate the 314 Inverclyde diagrams.

Nothing set in stone though.

If the next franchise requires new rolling stock for Glasgow, that would also allow the Cathcart 385s to go to East Kilbride I'd imagine, with or without a follow on order.

 

[route101]

East Kilbride will probably use the follow on 385 order if Abellio Franchise is extended.

385s will also be used on Cathcart Circle

380s displaced from North Berwick and Carstairs runs will probably operate the 314 Inverclyde diagrams.

Nothing set in stone though.

I see , 320s are downgrade in comfort for EK but are better for standing and dwell times . What the line needs is a 3rd service thats fast , would be interesting how faster an EMU service on EK line is compared to 156/

 

[ScottDarg]

I see , 320s are downgrade in comfort for EK but are better for standing and dwell times . What the line needs is a 3rd service thats fast , would be interesting how faster an EMU service on EK line is compared to 156/

The 321 aquisitions are rumours at the moment as far as I'm aware so it's very possible EK would get brand new stock.

I guess it depends on what capacity requirements are for the 385 routes and the Argyle+North Clyde lines at the time of EK electrification and if the 321 rumours end up being true.

 

[380101]

I see , 320s are downgrade in comfort for EK but are better for standing and dwell times . What the line needs is a 3rd service thats fast , would be interesting how faster an EMU service on EK line is compared to 156/

It will more than likely 380/385s for EK once they eventually get it wired. an EMU service to EK will be massively quicker as they'll always get to line speed on the way up the hill, whereas the 156 never really gets above 40. All the EK line platforms should be capable of handling 6 car 380/385 without much work needing done.

 

[380101]

East Kilbride will probably use the follow on 385 order if Abellio Franchise is extended.

385s will also be used on Cathcart Circle

380s displaced from North Berwick and Carstairs runs will probably operate the 314 Inverclyde diagrams.

Nothing set in stone though.

380s will take over the 314 diagrams as they are going off lease from next year and totally gone by sometime in 2019.

I imagine that the Ayr - North Berwick services will cease once the 385s come into service unless they plan to a) train Ayr drivers on the 385 or b) continue to use 380s for the service.

 

[NotATrainspott]

EK won't be wired until after 2020. Unless the financial situation for new rolling stock changes, I think it more likely that a new fleet of 385s or equivalent would be ordered for the line than for 321s to be used. If any more 321s do end up in Scotland I think the only real use for them would be as more 320/4 conversions mixed in to the normal Glasgow fleets. It wouldn't be efficient to use them around Edinburgh since Millerhill will the the only EMU depot and designed for Hitachi stock.

 

[SC318250]

Haymarket 158s are moving to Corkerhill

 

[380101]

156513 has emerged from refurb work - presumably it has followed 156510 in having new seating fitted too?

513 still with the original seats. Due to an oversight of leg space between the seat base and table top with the new seats all fitment of new Fainsa seats is on hold. There is approx. 125mm less space with the new seats. A solution is being worked on apparently.

 

[Julian G]

I passed a 385 at Carstairs this morning, it was working Wemyss Bay-Craigentinny Depot.

 

[158722]

513 still with the original seats. Due to an oversight of leg space between the seat base and table top with the new seats all fitment of new Fainsa seats is on hold. There is approx. 125mm less space with the new seats. A solution is being worked on apparently.

Ah yes, the seat height issue, forgot about that...

 

[Blindtraveler]

Would the solution be to raise the height of the table? If so shouldnt be taking so long?

 

[MCR247]

Would the solution be to raise the height of the table? If so shouldnt be taking so long?

I'd like to hope they would've tried that, it is taking a while it probably isn't that simple

 

[380101]

Would the solution be to raise the height of the table? If so shouldnt be taking so long?

In any other industry it would be sorted by now. But this is the Railway, so it will have to be put out to tender on a new design of table leg, then once the design is approved by all the 156 stakeholders it will need to be put out to tender for manufacture. Could be a long drawn out process.

The fleet engineers have been very quiet about it since it was pointed out to them by a member of staff on the internal staff social media site after they were proudly showing 156 510 off to the press. I suspect they are a bit embarrassed that they never noticed the problem when they did the engineering drawings and trial fits.