Scotrail/Northern Glasgow to Newcastle Services

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
25 May 2015
Messages
107
Location
Cumberland
Via Carlisle.

Are these going to continue after the next couple of Timetable changes, where Northern will be bringing Connect to the Tyne Valley Line?

Am I right in these are a throwback to far simpler times, and merely migrated when privatisation came in?

Surely can't be anyone who does the full journey?
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
2,861
Via Carlisle.

Are these going to continue after the next couple of Timetable changes, where Northern will be bringing Connect to the Tyne Valley Line?

Am I right in these are a throwback to far simpler times, and merely migrated when privatisation came in?

Surely can't be anyone who does the full journey?

Good questions.

I doubt any but hard-core track bashers do the whole journey. But Newcastle is a metropolis, and I dare say there are people who appreciate a direct train from Dumfries or Kilmarnock to Tyneside. Especially for ultra-normals, a direct train service is far less challenging than even one change, at least for the first couple of journeys.

Once someone has done the trip once or twice, the horror (to them) of actually having to detrain at Carlisle is far less threatening.

There is also a Sunderland-Whitehaven train in the late afternoon, isn't there? I wonder if that will survive?
 

380gk

Member
Joined
19 Oct 2014
Messages
132
The big market for these trains is Dumfries - Newcastle, vice Glasgow - Newcastle. The big question is whether or not scotrail and Northern will continue to share traincrew and units or whether the 156s and Dumfries will pick up the work of all the trains in Scotland.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
11,986
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Good questions.

I doubt any but hard-core track bashers do the whole journey. But Newcastle is a metropolis, and I dare say there are people who appreciate a direct train from Dumfries or Kilmarnock to Tyneside. Especially for ultra-normals, a direct train service is far less challenging than even one change, at least for the first couple of journeys.

Once someone has done the trip once or twice, the horror (to them) of actually having to detrain at Carlisle is far less threatening.

There is also a Sunderland-Whitehaven train in the late afternoon, isn't there? I wonder if that will survive?

Another, indirect, benefit of these services is they're guaranteed to be a Scotrail 156, which generally seem to be regarded as more comfortable than a Northern 156, and preferable to a Pacer for both capacity and comfort. May not be quite so clear-cut once the Scotrail 156s get ironing board seats however, which is already happening.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,610
Location
Macclesfield
Am I right in these are a throwback to far simpler times, and merely migrated when privatisation came in?
They formerly consisted of one return trip a day to each of Glasgow, Girvan and Stranrear. I believe that they were introduced as part of Sprinterisation following the introduction of class 156s, unless anyone knows of an earlier progenitor.

There doesn't seem to be any mention of the through Glasgow services in either the Scotrail or Northern franchise agreements, or their associated Train Service Requirements, post December 2017 (which in timetable terms, has now slipped back six months to May 2018 AIUI?), so I can't see much of a future for them, though will happily be proved wrong.
 

Liam

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
1,246
I use these services two or three times a year from Dumfries to Newcastle, so I'll be disappointed if they are cancelled if it means I need to get a Pacer from Carlisle. I don't mind changing as the Glasgow-bound services sit in Carlisle for at least 15 minutes anyway (the evening one is more like half an hour!). There are usually quite a few passengers onboard from Dumfries and and stations before going all the way to Newcastle or the Metro Centre
 
Joined
25 May 2015
Messages
107
Location
Cumberland
I use these services two or three times a year from Dumfries to Newcastle, so I'll be disappointed if they are cancelled if it means I need to get a Pacer from Carlisle. I don't mind changing as the Glasgow-bound services sit in Carlisle for at least 15 minutes anyway (the evening one is more like half an hour!). There are usually quite a few passengers onboard from Dumfries and and stations before going all the way to Newcastle or the Metro Centre

If they did cease, it's a relatively trouble free stroll between Platforms 5 and 7 anyways.

Isn't the first service from Dumfries on a morning operated by Northern anyway? Think that too sits in Carlisle for a good 20 minutes or so!
 

Liam

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
1,246
If they did cease, it's a relatively trouble free stroll between Platforms 5 and 7 anyways.

Isn't the first service from Dumfries on a morning operated by Northern anyway? Think that too sits in Carlisle for a good 20 minutes or so!

I think it's the second one (0531 from Carlisle, 0618 Dumfries-Newcastle) and the first one (0458) is Scotrail. It might actually be a Scotrail 156 stabled at Carlisle overnight, but crewed by Northern. But I'm never up that early to actually check! There are rumours that sometimes a Pacer turns up! :o

While the evening train sits in the platform from 1852 till 1917 there are two Northbound services from London (one via Birmingham) and one TPE from Manchester so waiting allows a straight forward connection to the South West of Scotland.
 
Last edited:

darloscott

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
670
Location
Stockton
There are two Dumfries-Newcastle operated by Northern on a morning. The 0531 from Carlisle takes 2x156 up and they come back down separately.
 

Donachie

Member
Joined
9 May 2010
Messages
102
There are two Dumfries-Newcastle operated by Northern on a morning. The 0531 from Carlisle takes 2x156 up and they come back down separately.

Yes the odd Pacer can turn up on 05:30 from Carlisle but has to work the 06:18 as Scotrail crew the 07:45.
 
Last edited:

SeanG

Member
Joined
4 May 2013
Messages
792
Surely can't be anyone who does the full journey?

I did this the other week, however got off at Metro centre rather than Newcastle so I could get a lift home as it is easier for the driver ;)

There wasn't much in it time wise as opposed to going either via Edinburgh or WCML
 

Liam

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
1,246
Another interesting point about these services are that they are on the departure boards at Newcastle as to Barrhead instead of Glasgow Central, in the same way that the Harrogate line services are for Poppleton or Burley Park.
 

SeanG

Member
Joined
4 May 2013
Messages
792
Another interesting point about these services are that they are on the departure boards at Newcastle as to Barrhead instead of Glasgow Central, in the same way that the Harrogate line services are for Poppleton or Burley Park.

At Glasgow they are advertised as Carlisle as the main destination but stations on the board go all the way and include Newcastle.
From Barrhead onwards it is advertised as Newcastle
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
8,157
At Glasgow they are advertised as Carlisle as the main destination but stations on the board go all the way and include Newcastle.
From Barrhead onwards it is advertised as Newcastle

That must be a recent thing , was advertised as Newcastle last at central .
 
Joined
25 May 2015
Messages
107
Location
Cumberland
I did this the other week, however got off at Metro centre rather than Newcastle so I could get a lift home as it is easier for the driver ;)

There wasn't much in it time wise as opposed to going either via Edinburgh or WCML

It's roughly 2hrs 30mins from Glasgow to Carlisle via Dumfries, and roughly 1hr 15mins on a direct WCML. I know which I'd prefer!!
 

aelius

Member
Joined
7 Mar 2012
Messages
67
Many years ago there used to be an overnight service from Stranraer to Newcastle.
 

SeanG

Member
Joined
4 May 2013
Messages
792
Depends on connection as WCML services arent always spread out over the hour

Exactly.

Plus surely for many, time on a 156 is better than on a Pendo, especially with no change and a guaranteed seat from Carlisle onwards
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
5,497
If they did cease, it's a relatively trouble free stroll between Platforms 5 and 7 anyways.

!

And sometimes plenty of time to do that walk - some Newcastle trains depart from Carlisle a few minutes before arrivals from Dumfries / Glasgow - giving you almost an hour wait before the next Carlisle - Newcastle departure.

.
 
Joined
25 May 2015
Messages
107
Location
Cumberland
And sometimes plenty of time to do that walk - some Newcastle trains depart from Carlisle a few minutes before arrivals from Dumfries / Glasgow - giving you almost an hour wait before the next Carlisle - Newcastle departure.

But that won't be as much of a problem when the West end of the line gets the doubled frequency soon?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top