Scotrail refunds

[furgus2]

I travelled on the FTW to EUS sleeper on 21st September. Unfortunately, there were technical issues with the loco almost as soon as the train had departed Fort William with the first of many long stops. Clearly, the delay got worse and worse and, in the end, all the passengers were told at 4.30 that we would have to get off at Edinburgh and then catch the first EC train to London at 5.40. We were all given a form to complete in order to receive a refund.
Yesterday, I received a voucher from Scotland to the value of £43 which met the cost of the sleeper berth. However, as my travel ticket was an All Line Rover, they won't give me anything towards the cost of the travel ticket. Personally, I think they are being a bit harsh as, in a similar situation a few years ago, when the sleeper from Glasgow to Euston had only reached Carlisle by 7 the next morning, they gave me just under £100.

 

[rail-britain]

The refund is by way of Travel Vouchers
As you reached your destination by way of another train company the amount of the refund is correct, the equivalent of the berth supplement paid
Presumably you included copies of both the ALR ticket and berth, if you only included the berth then retain the vouchers and complain advising that the final destination was reached over 1 hour late

If you remain on the sleeper throughout then you receive half of the normal return fare paid

 

[AlterEgo]

All Line Rovers attract no compensation on their own. Some TOCs may decide their own guidelines however.

 

[John @ home]

All Line Rovers attract no compensation on their own.

I don't agree. For the purposes of delay compensation, ScotRail's Passenger Charter has different schemes for monthly or longer season ticket holders and for all other ticket holders. No ticket type is excluded.

 

[All Line Rover]

I don't agree. For the purposes of delay compensation, ScotRail's Passenger Charter has different schemes for monthly or longer season ticket holders and for all other ticket holders. No ticket type is excluded.

Although John Horncastle at ATOC did tell me that an All Line Rover is a "special" ticket which is not automatically entitled to compensation, you make a good point. If ScotRail say that "all other ticket holders" are entitled to compensation in their Passenger Charter, they can't exclude All Line Rover's!

 

[rail-britain]

Discussed before, I have it in writing that the passengers charter applies at the prevailing rate (half the return fare)
When submitting your claim you can also request the TOC include details of how the compensation is calculated

The sleepers are a different issue and it depends on what issue was experienced

 

[AlterEgo]

Their Charter clearly states that "all other ticket holders" will have their cases looked into on an individual basis. The subsequent sentences tell us how "as a rough guide...ordinarily" etc.

An All Line Rover is not guaranteed for compensation according to their charter. Part of the problem is working out the cost of the affected journey. Most people with ALRs use it tens or hundreds of times during it's validity for a start.

Another problem is proving the ALR holder has actually travelled. However in the OP's case, as he has a berth reservation, this is moot.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also remember that people with ALRs usually need no encouraging to use the train again... You mad people.

 

[All Line Rover]

Their Charter clearly states that "all other ticket holders" will have their cases looked into on an individual basis. The subsequent sentences tell us how "as a rough guide...ordinarily" etc.

An All Line Rover is not guaranteed for compensation according to their charter. Part of the problem is working out the cost of the affected journey. Most people with ALRs use it tens or hundreds of times during it's validity for a start.

Hundreds!? hock: How can you make hundreds of reasonable length journeys within a fortnight?

Another problem is proving the ALR holder has actually travelled. However in the OP's case, as he has a berth reservation, this is moot.

To be honest, that is a problem with all ticket types except Advance tickets.

Also remember that people with ALRs usually need no encouraging to use the train again... You mad people.

I'd agree with that. Although I don't agree that the sole purpose of compensation is to encourage occasional travellers to use the train again.

 

[AlterEgo]

Although I don't agree that the sole purpose of compensation is to encourage occasional travellers to use the train again.

Of course not - but it is a major factor. No other form of transport will give you automatic discounts on future journeys (even with other operators!) for a thirty minute delay.

A problem with ALRs compared with other tickets is compensation fraud. It's easily possible to recoup far more than the value of the ticket with fraudulent claims given that the ticket is valid just about everywhere - as such, some TOCs are now being very stingy with compensation.

 

[embers25]

By transferring to that 0540 they would've arrived just under 2 hours late into Kings Cross and the walk/tube to Euston takes that over 2 hours and so that should be a full single/return refund by most charter rules and rovers don't seem excluded by Scotrail so £43 is ridiculous as that represents no fare refund at all. I agree fraud is an issue but given the sleeper reservation that showed intent to travel to Euston so fraud should be no question here.

 

[AlterEgo]

rovers don't seem excluded by Scotrail

They aren't - but read their charter.

They will pay out on an individual basis. In the OP's case, they decided no compensation was due for the cost of his ticket, which they are quite entitled to do (even if it's a bit daft IMO).

 

[furgus2]

I tried to raise the issue of the Passenger Charter with Scotrail Customer Relations this morning but they said a Senior Manager had made a final decision, they were not prepared to discuss it and that I had to contact Passsenger Focus if I was not satisfied.

 

[AlterEgo]

I tried to raise the issue of the Passenger Charter with Scotrail Customer Relations this morning but they said a Senior Manager had made a final decision, they were not prepared to discuss it and that I had to contact Passsenger Focus if I was not satisfied.

It does seem a little harsh - no matter what the rules or the Charter say.

You can of course contact Passenger Focus and state your case again, which may bear some fruit.

 

[Greenback]

There are two issues here. The first is that the sleeper service was cancelled, so it seems reasonable that the refund of the berth fee reflects that the service that had been paid for has not been delivered.

But Scotrail have not provided any compensation for the overall delay of the journey. An arrival time 2 hours later than scheduled should attract some form of compensation for the delay.

Personally I would make an official complaint, in writing.

 

[MacCookie]

I travelled on the FTW to EUS sleeper on 21st September. Unfortunately, there were technical issues with the loco almost as soon as the train had departed Fort William with the first of many long stops. Clearly, the delay got worse and worse and, in the end, all the passengers were told at 4.30 that we would have to get off at Edinburgh and then catch the first EC train to London at 5.40. We were all given a form to complete in order to receive a refund.

Were you not taken to a hotel and told that you could travel on any train down to London before lunchtime?

Ewan

 

[furgus2]

No, were were told to the Scotrail lounge and then told when to board the 5:40. Not that everyone did, at least one decided to go on the 5.55 to Glasgow presumably to catch a Virgin train to one of the stations that the sleeper should have called at
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've now had a follow up letter from Scotrail giving their justification for not paying out any compensation:

"Regarding your All Line Rover, as it is valid for travel on other train services - and I note that you did travel on another service on this occasion - I regret you are not entitled to compensation."

 

[Greenback]

"Regarding your All Line Rover, as it is valid for travel on other train services - and I note that you did travel on another service on this occasion - I regret you are not entitled to compensation."

Did you explain that you were delayed by over two hours? From the reply they seem only to be considering matetrs from the perspective of you having to buy a new ticket!

Regardless of your ticket being valid (anyone who is delayed will probably have a valid ticket for another train anyway) using an alternative service caused you to be much later into London than you had planned.

 

[embers25]

"Regarding your All Line Rover, as it is valid for travel on other train services - and I note that you did travel on another service on this occasion - I regret you are not entitled to compensation."[/QUOTE]

What on earth relevance is that??? Thats basically saying that if I travel on the 1200 from London to Edinburgh and it gets caped 2 hours late at Doncaster and so I then use Crosscountry from there north arriving the same 2 hours late that I'm not entitled to anything from Eastcoast as my ticket was valid on other services and not only that but I actually had the cheek to use them!!! Are we sure SWT aren't now running scotrail customer services?

 

[Greenback]

Scotrail appear to be trying to draw the distinction between rovers and other tickets into the discussion, but are doing so very badly!

They do need to be challenged on this, as the reply makes no sense as it is written. What we need to establish is if they believe that delay payments are not appropriate for rover tickets at all.

 

[AlterEgo]

As Scotrail have now had two attempts to rectify the situation, and you're still not satisfied, the best option available is to contact Passenger Focus at this point.

Scotrail are technically justified in paying out no compensation - that must be remembered at all times. Whether they are being nice or not is another matter!

 

[Greenback]

As Scotrail have now had two attempts to rectify the situation, and you're still not satisfied, the best option available is to contact Passenger Focus at this point.

Scotrail are technically justified in paying out no compensation - that must be remembered at all times. Whether they are being nice or not is another matter!

If that is the case they need to state it and quote the authority that permits it. It's not that I'm disputing what they say, but to provide thes esorts of replies only encourges further correspondence, wasting everyone's time and money!

 

[AlterEgo]

If that is the case they need to state it and quote the authority that permits it. It's not that I'm disputing what they say, but to provide thes esorts of replies only encourges further correspondence, wasting everyone's time and money!

Well, quite!

The way their second reply was worded is rather baffling to say the least. Travelling on another train has nothing whatsoever to do with entitlement to compensation, as I think we all agree.

 

[furgus2]

Yes, to me, their wording implies that if I had, for example, an Anytime Single, that would not have been entitled to compensation ether as that too would have been valid on other train services

 

[AlterEgo]

I think, having re-read their response to you, what they mean to say is that your ticket, because it is a rover and therefore has no nominal value per journey, does not qualify for compensation.

They've been rather ham-fisted though.

 

[Greenback]

I think, having re-read their response to you, what they mean to say is that your ticket, because it is a rover and therefore has no nominal value per journey, does not qualify for compensation.

They've been rather ham-fisted though.

I agree that is probably what they mean. Replies like this do no one any good, they need to say what they mean!

Most probably they didn't have a suitbale template, and a member of staff was forced to actually write a respoonse!

 

[John @ home]

what they mean to say is that your ticket, because it is a rover ... does not qualify for compensation.

But we know from rail-britain's Passengers Charter Claims thread that they have paid compensation to him for delays when travelling with an All Line Rail Rover.

ScotRail are likely to encounter trouble if they make payments in these circumstances to claimants from Scotland, but not to those from England or Wales.

 

[michael769]

ScotRail are likely to encounter trouble if they make payments in these circumstances to claimants from Scotland, but not to those from England or Wales.

I think is is much more likely to be the normal every inconsistency of response than any systematic policy.

 

[rail-britain]

But we know from rail-britain's Passengers Charter Claims thread that they have paid compensation to him for delays when travelling with an All Line Rail Rover

Full details : http://www.rail-britain.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=517

I think the amount paid depends on how the claim is made
Some TOCs have forms, which simply ask for the intended journey
They do ask for the ticket, for an ALR I simply send them a colour photo copy
For the journey itself I include the reservation, irrespective if I actually remain on the train (as was the case on my Edinburgh - Kings Cross, where I had no choice but to get off at Peterborough, otherwise I would have missed the northbound service)

Two claims were made on ScotRail services, one was severely late (I had to get off at Crewe, but they still paid for the entire journey to Euston) and the other was simply due to a heating issue (and the forms were provided on boarding the train)
When I made my claim to ScotRail this had to be done in writing, they do not have any forms
I outlined the intended journey, refering to the berth reservation, what happened at Crewe and my decision to get off the service with assistance from the ScotRail staff as by luck I had woken at 07:00
I also included details that I had remained on the train (unwoken by the ScotRail staff) I would not have completed my intended journey the following day (Liverpool Street - Great Yarmouth)

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Most probably they didn't have a suitbale template, and a member of staff was forced to actually write a respoonse!

That's every Customer Services Representitves nightmare - being forced to actually write a response! (I should know!)

 

[furgus2]

Update on the issue I raised:
Well, after being told by Scotrail Customer Relations that they would not discuss the matter any more, I wrote a pleasant letter to Scotrail's MD in Glasgow explaining to him what had happened. Today I received his reply and let me quote one paragraph from it:

"It is disappointing to note that you did not receive any compensation for the rail ticket you held. We do monitor the performance of our Customer Relations Team very closely and this matter has been taken up with our Customer Contact Centre Manager. She has since arranged to re-brief the staff on the correct procedures to follow in future."

Also enclosed in the letter are vouchers to the value of £70. No idea how they have arrived at that figure but it means that I now have a total of £113 from Scotrail in compensation for that trip. I'm perfectly satisfied with that now and am pleased that the MD saw my point of view.