ScotRail services - as of Nov 2020

[Scotrail12]

Noticed that many of the trains on the North Clyde Line have been cut to 3 carriages as of this week. Heard similar things about the East Kilbride Line (I think it was that one).

Why is this the case? Glasgow & Lanarkshire are in tier 3 so they surely have to expect people to continue travelling? Distancing gets tough on a 3 carriage train...

 

[Scotrail84]

Noticed that many of the trains on the North Clyde Line have been cut to 3 carriages as of this week. Heard similar things about the East Kilbride Line (I think it was that one).

Why is this the case? Glasgow & Lanarkshire are in tier 3 so they surely have to expect people to continue travelling? Distancing gets tough on a 3 carriage train...

E and Gs have mostly been reduced to 4 car 385s as well. Some Edinburgh - Dundee/Perth services are single 158s and some Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen/Inverness services are single 170s vice HST sets. Theres no call for 6, 7 or 8 car commuter trains trains through in the East at the moment, not sure about the West of course. Bear in mind that social distancing on ScotRail trains is a minimum of 1 metre and not 2 as before.

ScotRail are withdrawing a number of local and long distance services in the near future due to lack of patronage and to save money.

 

[Scotrail12]

E and Gs have mostly been reduced to 4 car 385s as well. Some Edinburgh - Dundee/Perth services are single 158s and some Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen/Inverness services are single 170s vice HST sets. Theres no call for 6, 7 or 8 car commuter trains trains through in the East at the moment, not sure about the West of course. Bear in mind that social distancing on ScotRail trains is a minimum of 1 metre and not 2 as before.

ScotRail are withdrawing a number of local and long distance services in the near future due to lack of patronage and to save money.

Are they permanently withdrawing some services? Which ones?

Noticed that Milngavie-Edinburgh is now weekday peak time only.

 

[Scotrail84]

Are they permanently withdrawing some services? Which ones?

Noticed that Milngavie-Edinburgh is now weekday peak time only.

I wouldn't imagine it will be permanent, it will be due to Coronavirus. I don't have specific details of what services are getting pulled but I do know that services are either going down to 80% or possibly 65%.

 

[Scotrail314209]

One thing I don't understand, why are the peak time Ayrshire services remaining as doubles as planned?

The loadings on them now nowhere near justify a 6 or 7 carriage service... maybe only one or two at max.

The e&g in my experience is still quite busy, quite a healthy loading got on the 11:15 the other day which would've filled up a good portion of the rear. Ideally they should be remaining as 8 or even 7 car.

I can see Milngavie - Edinburgh being withdrawn as even pre-covid the loadings on that service was very sparse. I think Scotrail may use this to make permanent cuts on some routes.

One thing I have noticed recently, the Argyle and North Clyde seems to be falling down a lot more than normal. A few weeks back the vast majority of trains were at least 10 minutes late, resulting in early terminations. Not too great tbh.

 

[awsnews]

There was a report on planned changes to North Clyde and Argyle Line services presented to the recent SPT Operations Committee. The changes include all daytime Milngavie trains going via Queen St, half to Springburn and half to Edinburgh with all stopping services on the Yoker line then going via Central. As part of this Dumbarton Central drops back to 4 trains an hour. It does, however, then say a reduced service for C19 is likely to continue until May 2021.

 

[Scotrail12]

There was a report on planned changes to North Clyde and Argyle Line services presented to the recent SPT Operations Committee. The changes include all daytime Milngavie trains going via Queen St, half to Springburn and half to Edinburgh with all stopping services on the Yoker line then going via Central. As part of this Dumbarton Central drops back to 4 trains an hour. It does, however, then say a reduced service for C19 is likely to continue until May 2021.

Does that mean only 2tph from Queen St - Blairhill? Hope that isn’t true!

ETA: Just found the document. Not clear on whether there is 4tph from Queen St - Airdrie/Coatbridge.
2.0 Current Timetable

The current timetable has services across the whole route being interdependent on each other, with services to Larkhall, Cumbernauld, Dalmuir, Whifflet and Milngavie interworking with each other. As such, a delay on one part of the network spreads across the rest of the route, and it takes much longer to restore services following disruption. Dwell times at on some services through the city centre do not allow enough time for passengers, while on other services they are longer than necessary.
The poor performance here has also resulted in a decline in passenger numbers as passenger sought more reliable modes of transport.
3.0 December 2020 Timetable
The December 2020 timetable introduces changes to improve performance, making the service more reliable and attractive for passengers. Various changes have been made, including changes to dwell times at city centre and key interchange stations to give time for boarding and disembarking.
The new timetable is designed to minimise the knock on impact of delays on different parts of the network. A train that works a service from Dalmuir to Larkhall will return to Dalmuir; a train that works a service from Dalmuir to Whifflet will return to Dalmuir. Therefore, a delay at Larkhall is less likely to impact passengers at Whifflet.

The most significant change to routes from Glasgow city centre are to Milngavie and to Dalmuir via Yoker. Currently ASR offer services from both Glasgow Central and Glasgow Queen St to Milngavie and Dalmuir via Yoker, giving passengers a choice of city centre stations.
Milngavie will continue to enjoy four trains per hour but will only be served during the day by services via Glasgow Queen St, with two trains per hour from Edinburgh, and two trains per hour from Springburn. This reduces the risk of delays by removing the interaction between Milngavie and cross- border services via Motherwell. It also enables more services to “step-back” at Milngavie. Passengers who wish to travel via Glasgow Central and the Argyle Line will be able to interchange at Hyndland.
In the new timetable all four trains per hour between Glasgow and Dalmuir via Yoker will be via Glasgow Central during the day. Passengers travelling via Glasgow Queen St will be able to interchange at Hyndland.
The timetable reduces the service frequency at Dumbarton Central from six to four trains per hour. Passenger demand at Dumbarton Central has fallen in recent years and there is no evidence that the increase in frequency encouraged more passengers to use the train.
An additional evening peak express service will be provided from Springburn to Helensburgh Central.
The timetable has been designed to minimise any impact on journey times, with some routes seeing minor increases in journey times while some routes will see a benefit. The timetable is forecast to deliver 92% PPM with medium term growth in passenger demand from pre-COVID levels.

 

[Peter0124]

I'm praying the Newton route doesn't get reduced to 3tph to Glasgow Central like in April with the xx:05, xx:19 via Maxwell Park, xx:23 services running and a huge 40 minute gap, from the current 6tph especially if things start opening up from next year if we get vaccines rolled out

 

[Scotrail12]

I'm praying the Newton route doesn't get reduced to 3tph to Glasgow Central like in April with the xx:05, xx:19 via Maxwell Park, xx:23 services running and a huge 40 minute gap, from the current 6tph especially if things start opening up from next year if we get vaccines rolled out

It doesn't seem like they're reducing Argyle Line services so I think that should be fine. Not sure about the Cathcart route.

What the document doesn't appear to mention is the Singer branch and how many services go through there, that determines whether or not we lose services on either NC or Argyle.

 

[Peter0124]

It doesn't seem like they're reducing Argyle Line services so I think that should be fine. Not sure about the Cathcart route.

Though one downside to the new timetable is the fact they aren't interworking the services anymore, it was always fun on roundabout tickets being able to go on a Hamilton Circle service then go round the Whifflet line via Mossend on the same train without getting off, unfortunately this won't happen anymore, not that it matters to the majority of passengers though

 

[Scotrail12]

Though one downside to the new timetable is the fact they aren't interworking the services anymore, it was always fun on roundabout tickets being able to go on a Hamilton Circle service then go round the Whifflet line via Mossend on the same train without getting off, unfortunately this won't happen anymore, not that it matters to the majority of passengers though

It doesn't seem to mention Motherwell. I thought it's always been a thing that trains coming from Hamilton would return to the Low Level via the other route (Bellshill until 2014 then Whifflet since then). It isn't clear on whether or not that will change. Can they even turn trains around there twice per hour?

Will miss that as well, done it a few times.

 

[Peter0124]

How will that work at Motherwell? Can they turn trains around there twice an hour? I thought it's always been a thing that trains coming from Hamilton would return to the Low Level via the other route (Bellshill until 2014 then Whifflet since then).

Will miss that as well, done it a few times.

Yeah because they have swapped the paths (After December the xx:27 eastbound from Glasgow Central goes via Blantyre instead of via Carmyle) it means the services have to reverse at Motherwell now, with Whifflet line trains using platform 3 and Hamilton Circle using platform 4, they will still have similar turnaround times as they previously had, just not continuing around the opposite side of the line and instead reversing.

So that means travel between the Hamilton Circle and Whifflet line stations via Motherwell will require a cross over the bridge to the adjacent platform unfortunately

Leftmost screenshot is now, right hand side is after December

EDIT:
2R30 is the Whifflet Line arrival
2C32 is the Hamilton Circle arrival
2F31 is the Hamilton Circle departure
2S33 is the Whifflet Line departure

 

[Scotrail314209]

One thing I have noticed with the new timetable, Ayr and Gourock seem to be remaining at 2tph with both the fast services extremely cut down to what is essentially peak time only.

I wonder how well that change will go down with the Ayr and Gourock passengers having their journey time increased by a substantial amount, at least 20 minutes coming from Ayr.

I believe many are under the impression that the cut was only temporary and that it was being restored to normality in December... maybe Scotrail could compromise and bring it up to an even 3tph?

 

[Peter0124]

One thing I have noticed with the new timetable, Ayr and Gourock seem to be remaining at 2tph with both the fast services extremely cut down to what is essentially peak time only.

I wonder how well that change will go down with the Ayr and Gourock passengers having their journey time increased by a substantial amount, at least 20 minutes coming from Ayr.

I believe many are under the impression that the cut was only temporary and that it was being restored to normality in December... maybe Scotrail could compromise and bring it up to an even 3tph?

I agree, even a 1tph fast service would be much better. I believe there is still a off peak 1tp2h fast service to Gourock using 318s or 320s at the moment and hopefully in December too, but I still think having it hourly would be beneficial. If the route is to require 2tph for a long time then even a potential controversial decision to have 1tph fast and 1tph all stops could work I'm not sure.

And I am not too sure about the Ayr route.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I agree, even a 1tph fast service would be much better. I believe there is still a 1tp2h fast service to Gourock using 318s or 320s at the moment and hopefully in December too, but I still think having it hourly would be beneficial or if it is to require 2tph then even a potential controversial decision to have 1tph fast and 1tph all stops

That may also work, as I haven't seen many people getting on at the intermediate stations on the all stops between Gourock and Glasgow. Though if you were to put the slow down to 1tph, you may get a bit of flack from the Hillington and Cardonald passengers.

 

[Scotrail12]

3tph for Ayr & Gourock makes sense.

Only seen 2tph for Ayr since March though there are a few extra Gourock trains, I think 1tp2h + 2tph.

Yeah because they have swapped the paths (After December the xx:27 eastbound from Glasgow Central goes via Blantyre instead of via Carmyle) it means the services have to reverse at Motherwell now, with Whifflet line trains using platform 3 and Hamilton Circle using platform 4, they will still have similar turnaround times as they previously had, just not continuing around the opposite side of the line and instead reversing.

So that means travel between the Hamilton Circle and Whifflet line stations via Motherwell will require a cross over the bridge to the adjacent platform unfortunately

Leftmost screenshot is now, right hand side is after December

That screenshot mentions Milngavie which according to the SPT article, is North Clyde only post December.

It actually makes no sense thinking about it - some do travel from Hamilton to Coatbridge which would make more sense to keep at 2tph.

 

[Peter0124]

3tph for Ayr & Gourock makes sense.

Only seen 2tph for Ayr since March though there are a few extra Gourock trains, I think 1tp2h + 2tph.


That screenshot mentions Milngavie which according to the SPT article, is North Clyde only post December.

It actually makes no sense thinking about it - some do travel from Hamilton to Coatbridge which would make more sense to keep at 2tph.

Yeah, right now the Hamilton Circle train starts from Milngavie. I feel as though Milngavie should've kept its Motherwell service from December meaning those commuting from stations on the Milngavie branch who work closer to Glasgow Central / Argyle Street now need to change at Hyndland/Partick or walk an extra distance from Queen Street etc. And they also lose direct services towards Rutherglen and Hamilton etc and instead gaining the Springburn trains.

Seeing as the Milngavie branch has had a direct service via Hamilton Circle for years they would have planned around that.

And if people do not take the Cumbernauld service the Hamilton Circle - Whifflet line journeys are harder as not only do they need to cross the bridge at Motherwell there's also slightly more time spent at Motherwell atleast from the example in the screenshot.

 

[Clansman]

Are they permanently withdrawing some services? Which ones?

Noticed that Milngavie-Edinburgh is now weekday peak time only.

Dumbarton-Springburn services will be permanently withdrawn, and the general frequency brought down to 4tph between Dumbarton and Glasgow. Also one or two proposed post December improvements through Springburn have now being shelved.

 

[Scotrail12]

I wonder if this impacts rolling stock. Could more 334's be on Argyle? Could 318's & 320's be returning to Helensburgh for the first time in regular service since 2011?

 

[Peter0124]

I wonder if this impacts rolling stock. Could more 334's be on Argyle? Could 318's & 320's be returning to Helensburgh for the first time in regular service since 2011?

I really do hate the 334s now as I boarded one that was busy full of people and we aren't even allowed to open the windows to help ventilate the train because of covid so hopefully we stick with the 318 and 320 here. They should really unlock the 334 windows and disable the air con unless it actually helps deal with covid. Though 318 and 320 to Helensburgh would be something cool to happen again and I kinda wanted them to run the A2B if only there was DOO mirrors on the platforms.

 

[Scotrail12]

I really do hate the 334s now as I boarded one that was busy full of people and we aren't even allowed to open the windows to help ventilate the train because of covid so hopefully we stick with the 318 and 320 here. They should really unlock the 334 windows and disable the air con unless it actually helps deal with covid. Though 318 and 320 to Helensburgh would be something cool to happen again and I kinda wanted them to run the A2B if only there was DOO mirrors on the platforms.

You can have the 318s and 320s, not a fan of them these days and they are one of the main reasons I don't use the Argyle line much these days. If more 334s went on that route, I'd be tempted to use it more often.

 

[InOban]

Apologies if this has already been pointed out but the reason for diverting all Central LL services to Dalmuir via Yoker is to reduce the spread of disruption around the system. At present a train out of schedule through Cambuslang towards Milngavie will, through junction conflicts at Hyndland and Westerton spread its delay into Milngavie branch, delaying a service to Edinburgh causing further disruption at Newbridge and Haymarket. The new routing means that this train will have no conflicting movement until it crosses to access the bay platform at Dalmuir and when it returns, only at Hyndland.

 

[Waverleystu]

Is the 19:00 Tweedbank to Dundee a new service?

 

[alexf380]

It's been in the system since at least May, I came across it over the summer. Certainly an interesting through journey opportunity.

 

[Waverleystu]

It's been in the system since at least May, I came across it over the summer. Certainly an interesting through journey opportunity.

Ah ok, I’ve never noticed that through service. I agree, interesting journey

 

[Scotrail84]

Is the 19:00 Tweedbank to Dundee a new service?

Its basically a tweedbank terminator but its extended to Dundee in the form of the 20:00 Edinburgh to Dundee that used to start in in Edinburgh but they just start it at tweedbank. They only need 1 set for this train instead of 2 previously.

 

[route101]

I had a 2 car 158 on 1038 from Glasgow Queen St on Monday, first time in a long time getting Scotrail 158 up to 90mph.

East Kilbride services are mostly 2 car 156 off peak, sometimes a 4 car. Strangely Barrhead services are 4 car off peak. does not make sense. East Kilbride sunday service is full half hour compared to rest of week where a few evening services are missing.

 

[Scotrail12]

I had a 2 car 158 on 1038 from Glasgow Queen St on Monday, first time in a long time getting Scotrail 158 up to 90mph.

Where was that to? Usually I only see 158s in Queen St headed for Anniesland but I noticed a 158 which was Aberdeen bound the other day and it looked to only be 2 coaches. Doesn't sound like a fun journey.

 

[ld0595]

Where was that to? Usually I only see 158s in Queen St headed for Anniesland but I noticed a 158 which was Aberdeen bound the other day and it looked to only be 2 coaches. Doesn't sound like a fun journey.

There's a few of the Dundee local services that are booked for 158s. The 17.09 comes to mind.

 

[route101]

Where was that to? Usually I only see 158s in Queen St headed for Anniesland but I noticed a 158 which was Aberdeen bound the other day and it looked to only be 2 coaches. Doesn't sound like a fun journey.

1038 Glasgow Queen St to Aberdeen on Monday, i took it as far as Stirling, wasnt busy. Id say it was nippier than a 170.