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Scotrail will need cheaper rail options

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CarterUSM

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Its similarity to Dutch suggests a common West Germanic ancestor, which means it comes from one of the Anglo-Saxon dialects brought over after the Romans had gone, rather than from Norse. There are a lot of similarities between modern Dutch and Scots though. Steen (pronounced 'stane') = stone, kerk = church, ken[nen] = to know, burg = borough.



I see, interesting stuff mate. So I take it the Dutch would be at home with Burns ? ;)
 
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tbtc

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Slam door stock is still in daily use with scotrail.

Not aware of any plans to replace or upgrade it.

National Express scrapped the 117s.

First brought in loco-hauled services with slam doors.

Yet National Express are usually criticised as the bad guys...
 

TheBigD

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National Express scrapped the 117s.

First brought in loco-hauled services with slam doors.

Yet National Express are usually criticised as the bad guys...

I must have missed NX replacing the 60 odd sleeper vehicles...
 
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HH

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Slam door stock is still in daily use with scotrail.

To be clear this is the sleeper stock. 'Daily' in this case means nightly. In addition there is central locking of the doors, so it's not the same as the stock that was replaced. But why not be pedantic?

To be also clear, the last of the remaining (non-sleeper) slam door stock was removed by First in 2004 with 4 units transferred from Hull Trains.
 

CarterUSM

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To be clear this is the sleeper stock. 'Daily' in this case means nightly. In addition there is central locking of the doors, so it's not the same as the stock that was replaced. But why not be pedantic?

To be also clear, the last of the remaining (non-sleeper) slam door stock was removed by First in 2004 with 4 units transferred from Hull Trains.

There's still the M-F Fife circles. Or is there?
 

route:oxford

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Any existing contracts for the supply of rail vehicles will already be prepared and issued under Scots Law. So I very much doubt if there'll be any additional issues for cross-border transactions.

Of course, Transport Scotland could use all the oil money and electrify the majority of the country and order new-build appropriate stock.

Do you think Transport Scotland would be prepared to import vehicles manufactured by the hated English or prefer to purchase from Germany, Spain or China?
 

HH

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There's still the M-F Fife circles. Or is there?

No, you are right. I have no idea why this is still using Mk2 stock. But these are still centrally locked, which means they don't suffer from the safety problems that bedevilled slam door stock and led to their removal.
 

CarterUSM

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Any existing contracts for the supply of rail vehicles will already be prepared and issued under Scots Law. So I very much doubt if there'll be any additional issues for cross-border transactions.

Of course, Transport Scotland could use all the oil money and electrify the majority of the country and order new-build appropriate stock.

Do you think Transport Scotland would be prepared to import vehicles manufactured by the hated English or prefer to purchase from Germany, Spain or China?

Don't go there..................:D
 

HH

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Do you think Transport Scotland would be prepared to import vehicles manufactured by the hated English or prefer to purchase from Germany, Spain or China?

What English manufactured vehicles?
 

CarterUSM

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No, you are right. I have no idea why this is still using Mk2 stock. But these are still centrally locked, which means they don't suffer from the safety problems that bedevilled slam door stock and led to their removal.

Indeed, as much as I liked the 101's, nobody would shut the door!
 

route:oxford

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Don't go there..................:D

Well got to wonder, there are regular stories in the Scottish press about clamping down on Sectarianism...

But then last night, across Scotland, bonfire nights were taking place as usual.
 

tbtc

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Well got to wonder, there are regular stories in the Scottish press about clamping down on Sectarianism...

But then last night, across Scotland, bonfire nights were taking place as usual.

"Sectarian" in the west of Scotland basically means "anything we don't like" - its an amazingly fluid word - Orwell would be fascinated at the way that it can mean two completely opposite things...
 

shedman

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I'm pretty sure memories are short when it comes to slating NatEx running ScotRail. They did a fantastic job of it and if I remember rightly everything preposed for the next franchise by NatEx was carried out by First who took all the credit, even down to the extra batch of 170s that were delivered to First were ordered by NatEx, am I right in thinking Eastfield was planned and designed by NatEx by delivered by First? Back in the day NatEx were great at running franchises (I know Central wasn't all that good but I think it was mismanaged locally as apposed to NatEx it's self and perhaps Wales and West/Wessex could have been better, but look what FGW have done). I worked for MML and that was a great company to work for, you were left alone as long as you were doing your job right which I am told is exactly how they run ScotRail. A happy workforce is a productive one. Look at Scotrail now. Does anyone really think First will regain it? NatEx worked wonders and First took the credit.
 
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edinight

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When I saw this thread, one thought rang clear in my head:
With little-Englander attitudes like those shown here shown in the light of day, it's much more likely that Scots will want independence.

Congrats!
 

Jonny

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Rail would be the least of the problems - England would have to go all-electric and, in the short-medium term, have to frack the gas from under Fylde to make up for the loss of oil exports. It would be even worse if Scotland joined the Euro and we (England) didn't.
 

scotsman

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Must admit, I'm suprised!

Only on the basis that no-one else will be up for it. First are particularly happy to jump through Transport Scotland's hoops, in fact, they're pretty accomplished at it
 

CarterUSM

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"Sectarian" in the west of Scotland basically means "anything we don't like" - its an amazingly fluid word - Orwell would be fascinated at the way that it can mean two completely opposite things...

Not quite "anything we don't like" ,to be fair, and it's more prevalent than you'd think outside the west of Scotland.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Only on the basis that no-one else will be up for it. First are particularly happy to jump through Transport Scotland's hoops, in fact, they're pretty accomplished at it

You are correct! Ding!!!!:D
 

shedman

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Only on the basis that no-one else will be up for it. First are particularly happy to jump through Transport Scotland's hoops, in fact, they're pretty accomplished at it

That's a very good point, one I'd not thought of but tbh Stagecoach are that sort of company too so I wouldn't be suprised to see them giving it a good go and being sucessful. I'm not First bashing or singing the praises of Stagecoach in any way here though, it's just my personal opinions!
 

HH

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Now that Moir Lockhead has gone I wonder whether First will have as much of an appetite for it. He was the big driver behind First being so keen on Scotland.

Also Mary Grant was a significant part of their success. I wonder where she will re-surface.
 

318259

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That's a very good point, one I'd not thought of but tbh Stagecoach are that sort of company too so I wouldn't be suprised to see them giving it a good go and being sucessful. I'm not First bashing or singing the praises of Stagecoach in any way here though, it's just my personal opinions!

Brian Souter has donated an awful lot of money to the SNP, so you never know. Then again, Stagecoach are an awful company that literally run their competitors off the road. The only bus company that's behaved shadier is McGills.

One thing National Express did a lot better than First is cleaning the trains properly. I don't know if First have cut the amount of time allocated to clean a single train, but you can see the filth collecting in the corners where they don't bother to clean. National Express also used that lovely mango-scented cleaning fluid that made the Junipers quite pleasant at 7AM. That disappeared after the franchise changed hands.

Oh, and for the Little Englanders, Scotland could survive independently. They always mention the money that Scotland gets from the London government. But Scotland brings in a lot of money to London through taxes and duties on whisky. We also bring in a lot of money through tourism. Scotland generates a lot of energy, and there's a lot of money going in to develop more. We have oil, wind farms, nuclear stations and coastal power generators.
 
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Moog_1984

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I am. 100% so. Lowlanders anyway, which is the majority. Signs written in the Gaelic language in places like Glasgow where it has never been spoken just make me sigh.

Not at all 4 SRKT. Scotland is made up by a large majority of the

1)ancient britons, pre anglo saxon who spoke Cymric and had their mettal as far north as Dunbarton ( Dun Britton, the fort of the brittons)

2) Celts who were probably of phonetian origin, migrating through Galicia to Ireland

3) Vikings : 33% on the west coast.

There is not trace of the picts I have heard about, but the thge genetic research over the last 20 years shows Scots ( me in there) are further away from the SE of england than the Germans or Dutch.

Whether or not England should be granted independence from Scottish Rule and Economic subsidies. is another question altogether
 

pemma

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Oh, and for the Little Englanders, Scotland could survive independently. They always mention the money that Scotland gets from the London government. But Scotland brings in a lot of money to London through taxes and duties on whisky. We also bring in a lot of money through tourism. Scotland generates a lot of energy, and there's a lot of money going in to develop more. We have oil, wind farms, nuclear stations and coastal power generators.

Economists analysing all the facts come to the conclusion that Scotland having independence would come at a cost to Scotland, at least in the short term.

Whisky actually generates less in tax per unit of alcohol then other alcoholic beverages.

Having spare energy suggests to Scots that they can sell it to the English because the English will have to buy it. However, if prices aren't competitive then long term England will look to reduce the amount of energy purchased from Scotland.

Scotland gets approx. 20m tourists in total per annum. London gets 16m non-UK tourists per annum. While tourist spending is a big part of Scotland's balance sheet it's a small part of the UK's balance sheet.
 
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