Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[Geeves]

On a lighter note: https://twitter.com/DRSgovuk/status/1110205315616854017?s=19

88002 has become the first electric locomotive to use the wires at Grangemouth.

I think its the Tesco express that uses that 88 and is currently run by DRS? Apparently this contract has been lost to COLAS who will be using diesels and as far as I know was the only electric to Grangemouth. You can only laugh sometimes!

 

[alangla]

I think its the Tesco express that uses that 88 and is currently run by DRS? Apparently this contract has been lost to COLAS who will be using diesels and as far as I know was the only electric to Grangemouth. You can only laugh sometimes!

I thought this had to run with either an 88/92 or a pair of 68s to keep to its path on the WCML - are Colas planning to haul it with a pair of 70s?

 

[MadMac]

View attachment 60772

I think that you are thinking about another old route! The one I am referring to used to have a junction on the Rutherglen to Whifflet line at Carmyle station which went south over the Clyde to Newton Station, it effectively bypassed Cambuslang station

I think he/she is thinking about the old Parkhead Stadium line. Oddly enough, Carmyle-Newton also occurred to me the other day as being at least worth looking at.

 

[Chris125]

I think its the Tesco express that uses that 88 and is currently run by DRS? Apparently this contract has been lost to COLAS who will be using diesels and as far as I know was the only electric to Grangemouth. You can only laugh sometimes!

Happy to be corrected, but if your referring to the post on WNXX I think that refers to the Doncaster-Millerhill engineers train?

 

[deltic08]

I thought this had to run with either an 88/92 or a pair of 68s to keep to its path on the WCML - are Colas planning to haul it with a pair of 70s?

It should be a condition by NR that any train running entirely under the wires must be electric traction. So much for the wording on Tesco containers Less CO2. What a joke.

 

[jopsuk]

It should be a condition by NR that any train running entirely under the wires must be electric traction. So much for the wording on Tesco containers Less CO2. What a joke.

it's still MUCH less CO2 than the equivalent convoy of lorries

 

[Southsider]

Various media reports that the Scottish Transport Minister will announce his rail investment plans soon. In addition to projects there will be additional funds for operational activities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47701117

Edit: I thought the report said 'later today' but it just says 'later'

 

[clc]

Various media reports that the Scottish Transport Minister will announce his rail investment plans soon. In addition to projects there will be additional funds for operational activities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47701117

Edit: I thought the report said 'later today' but it just says 'later'

There are details on the Transport Scotland website. In terms of electrification, East Kilbride, Barrhead and Dunblane-Perth are the next priorities, though nothing is actually signed off yet:

https://www.transport.gov.scot/publication/scotland-s-railway-control-period-6-2019-2024/

 

[deltic08]

it's still MUCH less CO2 than the equivalent convoy of lorries

But will be using more CO2 than it was needlessly

 

[edwin_m]

But will be using more CO2 than it was needlessly

I think you mean producing...

 

[mcmad]

There are details on the Transport Scotland website. In terms of electrification, East Kilbride, Barrhead and Dunblane-Perth are the next priorities, though nothing is actually signed off yet:

https://www.transport.gov.scot/publication/scotland-s-railway-control-period-6-2019-2024/

No mention of East Kilbride being electrified and only a maybe for Perth in there unless I've missed something?

Definitely a slowdown after the spike of electrification and other large projects in CP5.

 

[clc]

No mention of East Kilbride being electrified and only a maybe for Perth in there unless I've missed something?

Definitely a slowdown after the spike of electrification and other large projects in CP5.

Re this part:

improvements to East Kilbride and Barrhead services to enable more passengers to use the railway and create a greener commute from two of the main Glasgow commuter areas

I infer that “greener commute” means electrification.

 

[385001]

And “improvements to how the rail network operates West of Haymarket station (Edinburgh) and on lines that interconnect, to allow current and increased numbers of passenger and freight trains” surely must be the Dalmeny Chord?

And if it is, it would surely have to be electrified as well.

 

[mcmad]

Re this part:


I infer that “greener commute” means electrification.

Or battery or hydrogen or.......

Its a stretch to go from greener commute to electrification. Arguably you could say longer 156's are a greener commute by taking traffic off the roads.

Not saying electrification won't happen, just pointing out these are political weasel words.

 

[route101]

Still hopeful of EK wiring ...

 

[31160]

Still hopeful of EK wiring ...

Surely it would make sense the 156's can't have that much longer left in them anyway so if your going to replace them anyway why not put the knitting up

 

[route101]

Surely it would make sense the 156's can't have that much longer left in them anyway so if your going to replace them anyway why not put the knitting up

Only other option is cascaded DMUs like 170s and 158s

 

[MadMac]

Only other option is cascaded DMUs like 170s and 158s

158s aren't that much newer than 156s, are they?

 

[Highland37]

No and also it's not the 90s any more. I for one wish EK can be electrified asap. But in saying that, I'd be electrifying to Aberdeen and Inverness.

 

[deltic08]

I think you mean producing...

Yes I do thank you.

Or battery or hydrogen or.......

Its a stretch to go from greener commute to electrification. Arguably you could say longer 156's are a greener commute by taking traffic off the roads.

Not saying electrification won't happen, just pointing out these are political weasel words.

We need bimodes first to be able to use them, which are a long way off yet.

 

[mcmad]

We need bimodes first to be able to use them, which are a long way off yet.

There was an article in the Scotsman around hitachi offering a battery/emu version of the 385, something like that could probably run to EK with perhaps a short OLE section at the station for charging?

 

[Brissle Girl]

I think you can be fairly sure that if electrification is the intention then it would have been stated as such. After all, these statements are all about putting a positive spin on whatever is being announced, and the wording will have been considered very carefully to achieve that. The fact that the vaguer wording about a more greener commute has been used would indicate to me that at best electrification is just one option including battery etc. The worst option is of course that it has all but been ruled out, but they don't want to set hares running until they are in a firm position to announce the alternative.

 

[d9009alycidon]

The East Kilbride Branch has a stiff gradient all the way from Thornliebank to Hairmyers, the gradient profile can be found by looking for file GS GR 7 AA1.tiff.tif on this page https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/signalling_diagrams_and_gradient. The restart from Clarkston is particularly severe, with the line at 1:68 through the platform, would battery units have the capacity to ascend the branch? I suppose the good side would that you could use regenerative braking to recharge for most of the return journey

 

[smtglasgow]

Would the line to EK need to be redoubled completely from Busby onwards to allow a 15 minute frequency? Judging by the passenger numbers off-peak, the current level of service will soon be inadequate. Been discussed a few times here before, but a number of bridges might be classed as problematic – for a short(ish) line, there would need to be some serious civil engineering. The big one must be the bridge at Clarkston Toll. By rights this should be getting replaced anyway due to the volume of traffic, but it’s a constrained space and any replacement is probably going to have to eat into the car park at Clarkston. But bridges aside, electrification seems obvious and would give significant wins.

 

[d9009alycidon]

Would think that closure of the branch and digging out the trackbed to obtain the required clearances (slabbed track?) would be an option,

 

[deltic08]

There was an article in the Scotsman around hitachi offering a battery/emu version of the 385, something like that could probably run to EK with perhaps a short OLE section at the station for charging?

Probably electrify the main line to Kilmarnock, which would help with diversions, and battery on the branch from Busby Jnc. That would be enough to charge the batteries.

 

[MadMac]

Would the line to EK need to be redoubled completely from Busby onwards to allow a 15 minute frequency?

I don’t think it’s ever been double beyond Busby.

 

[92002]

Still hopeful of EK wiring ...

The Rumour mill says that East Kilbride should be no 1, since the passenger numbers make the project add up. Then Kilmarnock with perhaps Kilmarnock to Barassie as an add on. Probably Dunblane to Perth as no 3, then the Edinburgh Sub.

With the change next week from CP5 to CP6 all should be revealed. Behind the scenes work is underway on East Kilbride for the next control period.

 

[Southsider]

The Rumour mill says that East Kilbride should be no 1, since the passenger numbers make the project add up. Then Kilmarnock with perhaps Kilmarnock to Barassie as an add on. Probably Dunblane to Perth as no 3, then the Edinburgh Sub.

With the change next week from CP5 to CP6 all should be revealed. Behind the scenes work is underway on East Kilbride for the next control period.

What you say makes sense but the paper quoted above links East Kilbride and Barrhead in a single project leaving Kilmarnock out on its own.

 

[smtglasgow]

I don’t think it’s ever been double beyond Busby.

Sorry, badly phrased. What I really meant was would you need to double all the way to EK to support a 15 min service, or would, say, one more loop be sufficient? If so, where? Also, a second platform at EK?