Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[Southsider]

Substation arrives for Shotts Line electrification.
https://twitter.com/shottslineelec/status/1002578288206909440?s=21

 

[Kite159]

Not sure if it was notable but due to signalling issues in the Falkirk High area today, 380013 & 380114 were diverted to run nonstop via Falkirk Grahamston tonight (20:00 Glasgow Queen Street - Edinburgh)

 

[Highlandspring]

It was the first in service diversion, yes. Also perhaps worth mentioning that leccys are not yet permitted to stop at stations on the Grahamston line due to some sort of dispatch issue.

 

[mcmad]

Thats the third day in a row there have been signalling issues at Falkirk High. Did they just cancel the electric sets up till now?

 

[Southsider]

VTWC Polmadie drivers sign all the recognised diversions except the R&C (that’s, Shields Jn/Larkfield, Cathcart Circle, Hamilton Circle, Holytown via both Bellshill and Braidhurst, Wishaw Connecting line and some know the G&SW. VTWC Edinburgh drivers sign the above and the R&C, Cumbernauld and E&G. VTWC Preston drivers don’t sign any diversionary routes in Scotland.

Assuming that these diversions are only occasionally used, how do the drivers maintain their route knowledge? Do they shadow Scotrail drivers on local services over these lines?

 

[Highlandspring]

Various services and empty stock movements are booked to use them. Virgin West Coast drivers also get route refresher days incorportated into their roster which allows them to refamiliarise themselves with routes they haven't worked over for a while.

 

[Chrism20]

Assuming that these diversions are only occasionally used, how do the drivers maintain their route knowledge? Do they shadow Scotrail drivers on local services over these lines?

Not sure if it’s still the case in the new timetable but the ECS that forms the 0851 from Edinburgh in the morning done a tour of the central belt taking in Cumbernauld, Falkirk Grahamston and then arriving into Waverley from the east having ran round the South sub.

 

[najaB]

Not sure if it’s still the case in the new timetable....

Appears that it is still: 5M52 0623 Polmadie Car M.D. to Edinburgh

 

[snowball]

Network Rail, ever frugal in its use of resources, has used three photographs to illustrate delivery and craning in of a substation at Ordsall Lane, Salford, in this tweet:

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1000665286025072640

and also in this press release (see the next-to-bottom picture and click the arrows):

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/late-may-railway-improvement-works-complete/

However two of the same three photographs are also used in this tweet, which claims to be on the Shotts line:

https://twitter.com/shottslineelec/status/1002578288206909440

 

[jazza374]

The substation was being delivered to Holytown I believe on the Shotts line, and those pics are definitely NOT Holytown!

 

[Southsider]

The Scottish Government are due to table their transport bill in the next couple of weeks. Hopefully that will bring some clarity regarding the rolling programmme of electrification.

 

[clc]

The Scottish Government are due to table their transport bill in the next couple of weeks. Hopefully that will bring some clarity regarding the rolling programmme of electrification.

I don’t think it will. It’s more about powers than what they intend to build.

 

[Southsider]

I don’t think it will. It’s more about powers than what they intend to build.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't expecting anything particularly detailed to be announced, more an indication as to whether the rolling programme would continue. Stirling, Dunblane, Alloa and Shotts seem to be at an advanced stage with nothing thereafter. Contractors must be getting nervous!

 

[YorkshireBear]

They originally spoke about electrifying to Aberdeen in stages, then Inverness again in stages. And have repeatedly spoken about commitment to a rolling programme so hopefully this will come out. Although with regards to Aberdeen, I would be happy to see them use batteries to bridge the Forth and not go to the extreme complication of electrifying that structure.

 

[takno]

They originally spoke about electrifying to Aberdeen in stages, then Inverness again in stages. And have repeatedly spoken about commitment to a rolling programme so hopefully this will come out. Although with regards to Aberdeen, I would be happy to see them use batteries to bridge the Forth and not go to the extreme complication of electrifying that structure.

Having the HSTs probably puts Aberdeen/Inverness off the table for a while even if they weren't such a huge commitment. I would have thought logically you'd go South Sub, then East Kilbride, then Fife Coast to Dundee, then Dunfermline (possibly the Fife Circle before Dundee). Resignalling and civils seem more urgent on the lines to Perth and HML at least. I do agree that without announcements forthcoming soon the rolling programme will look like it's rolling to a halt.

 

[InOban]

In the short term, also the extension to Grangemouth. But it is likely that certained singled sections at the periphery of the Glasgow network may be redoubled to improve reliability, and since this will need to follow current specifications, it is likely that new OHLE will be required.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Having the HSTs probably puts Aberdeen/Inverness off the table for a while even if they weren't such a huge commitment. I would have thought logically you'd go South Sub, then East Kilbride, then Fife Coast to Dundee, then Dunfermline (possibly the Fife Circle before Dundee). Resignalling and civils seem more urgent on the lines to Perth and HML at least. I do agree that without announcements forthcoming soon the rolling programme will look like it's rolling to a halt.

That did cross my mind. I am not massively familiar with the suburban networks of Glasgow and Edinburgh to say how many lines are not electrified. Need to get my atlas out i think! I certainly think commuter networks across the whole central belt being electric is very worthy and noble aim. Or the teams can move to England and do some better electrification there

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Surely Stirling to Dundee would be fairly high priority?

 

[Southsider]

Surely Stirling to Dundee would be fairly high priority?

I think that’s relatively small commuter numbers compared to the remaining unelectrified Glasgow suburban network. How it scores from an operational point of view I don’t know but I wouldn’t think it would be high.

 

[InOban]

On present plans this would be many miles of OHLE to be used by one train an hour.

 

[takno]

Surely Stirling to Dundee would be fairly high priority?

My thinking on doing the Fife coast to Dundee was that you get most of the Fife circle done for the price, whereas Stirling to Dundee is a relatively long stretch with comparatively fewer trains, most of which will be HSTs for the next few years. All of those assumptions could be completely wrong... I also didn't mention the Borders because the traffic isn't immense, though it's a bit on the hilly side so there could be benefits there.

Apart from EK and more marginally Maryhill what's left to do on the Glasgow suburbans? I can't honestly remember if Wemyss Bay etc are done or not.

 

[takno]

Or the teams can move to England and do some better electrification there

I'd personally probably benefit more from Leeds-York than anything that's left in Scotland, but I'm sure the DfT would find some way to make the teams not work out down there.

 

[gsnedders]

My thinking on doing the Fife coast to Dundee was that you get most of the Fife circle done for the price, whereas Stirling to Dundee is a relatively long stretch with comparatively fewer trains, most of which will be HSTs for the next few years. All of those assumptions could be completely wrong... I also didn't mention the Borders because the traffic isn't immense, though it's a bit on the hilly side so there could be benefits there.

The problem is Fife is hard: the Forth Bridge is hard, most of the tunnels are hard (from North Queensferry to Inverkeithing, those either side of Burntisland and Kinghorn)… As such, basically all the proposals show Dundee getting electrified from the west first, especially in combination with new stopping services through Dundee.

 

[gingertom]

My thinking on doing the Fife coast to Dundee was that you get most of the Fife circle done for the price, whereas Stirling to Dundee is a relatively long stretch with comparatively fewer trains, most of which will be HSTs for the next few years. All of those assumptions could be completely wrong... I also didn't mention the Borders because the traffic isn't immense, though it's a bit on the hilly side so there could be benefits there.

Apart from EK and more marginally Maryhill what's left to do on the Glasgow suburbans? I can't honestly remember if Wemyss Bay etc are done or not.

Maryhill EK and barrhead/Kilmarnock are the Glasgow suburbans left without wires.
Scottish government has aspirations to extend Dunblane commuter services to Perth so electrification of that route is logical to avoid mixed traction at the pinch points. There's also commuter flows Dundee-Perth and Arbroath-Dundee, electrification is on the agenda for these too. Fife circle makes sense although the Forth Bridge has its challenges which I'm sure Furer & Frey can overcome.
Imperative the rolling programme continues to roll otherwise the expertise will be lost. That would be a travesty.

 

[gordonjahn]

My thinking on doing the Fife coast to Dundee was that you get most of the Fife circle done for the price, whereas Stirling to Dundee is a relatively long stretch with comparatively fewer trains, most of which will be HSTs for the next few years. All of those assumptions could be completely wrong... I also didn't mention the Borders because the traffic isn't immense, though it's a bit on the hilly side so there could be benefits there.

Apart from EK and more marginally Maryhill what's left to do on the Glasgow suburbans? I can't honestly remember if Wemyss Bay etc are done or not.

EK and Maryhill/Anniesland are about all that's left around Glasgow before you start to tackle the G&SWR to Barrhead/Kilmarnock/Carlisle - EK looks sensible to do alongside station alterations to increase line capacity but the story oft-repeated is that Maryhill/Anniesland is worked with WHL trains in between turns, so there's little benefit to adding wires.

Borders line might be worthwhile soon, and Dunblane-Perth might be worthwhile for both Glasgow-Perth and more electrified running of ECML Inverness services.

I've no idea about Fife but post 2333 says it's hard...!

 

[InOban]

To the best of my knowledge, the Maryhill route is worked with 158s, not with WHL 156s, which do however have 'turns' out towards Stirling.

The increase in longer-distance commuting brings the routes you mention into the fray, and also the extension of wires to Girvan with additional stations in the south of Ayr.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Imperative the rolling programme continues to roll otherwise the expertise will be lost. That would be a travesty.

This. Myself, like other people on this forum that are very interested and keen on electrification, have looked to Scotland for the glimmer of light in the current darkness with what seems to now be a well managed team going on about their business. If that was to end it would be a great shame with the only new schemes on horizon being new wales franchise.

 

[adrock1976]

My thinking on doing the Fife coast to Dundee was that you get most of the Fife circle done for the price, whereas Stirling to Dundee is a relatively long stretch with comparatively fewer trains, most of which will be HSTs for the next few years. All of those assumptions could be completely wrong... I also didn't mention the Borders because the traffic isn't immense, though it's a bit on the hilly side so there could be benefits there.

Apart from EK and more marginally Maryhill what's left to do on the Glasgow suburbans? I can't honestly remember if Wemyss Bay etc are done or not.

Wemyss Bay (alongside with Gourock, plus Cathcart, Neilston, Motherwell, and Glasgow Queen Street low level) were done in 1960.

 

[och aye]

Edinburgh South Suburban has also been mooted as a line to be electrified too.

 

[Highlandspring]

To the best of my knowledge, the Maryhill route is worked with 158s, not with WHL 156s, which do however have 'turns' out towards Stirling.

The majority of Annieslands are 156s, a mixture of Westies and non-Westies.